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When We Let John Hagee Speak for Us
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More in Forward ForumThe American Jewish community must decide: Does it want to connect young Jews to Israel, or does it intend to drive them away?
By supporting Birthright Israel, the community was wise enough to see that even our most disengaged young people have a yearning for connection to the Jewish state. Birthright is one of our proudest achievements.
Still, Birthright alone cannot create Zionists or committed Jews. What it can do is ignite a spark of Jewish interest that we must carefully tend so that it grows into a roaring fire of devotion to Israel and to Jewish life.
Yet we are faltering in tending that spark. Our most committed young-adult Jews are living Jewish lives in which Israel plays, at best, a peripheral part.
I am referring here not to the alienated and uninvolved, who are distanced from all things Jewish, but to Jewish activists who create havurot, join minyanim or find a place in established synagogues or Jewish community centers. These future Jewish leaders are not hostile to Israel, and many have positive memories from Birthright or youth-movement trips, but Israel today is a marginal part of their Jewish consciousness.
There is no single explanation for their disaffection, but surely one important reason is the increasingly right-wing and even reactionary tone that some elements of the organized community have adopted in their pronouncements on Israel. American Jews have always been moderate in their views on Israel, and this is especially true for the young.
Of course, the fact that some national and umbrella bodies express hard-line sentiments that do not reflect majority opinion is not new. What is new and deeply disturbing is that local communal bodies are now following their lead. Proof of this trend, as reported in these pages earlier this month, is the willingness of some local Jewish federations to support and endorse events sponsored by Pastor John Hagee and his lobbying group, Christians United for Israel.
In March, when the American Israel Public Affairs Committee departed from past policy and gave Hagee a prime slot at its national convention in Washington, his new status in the Jewish community was confirmed. I am an admirer and supporter of Aipac, but this decision was a mistake for two reasons.
The first is the way that Hagee’s appearance would be perceived on Capitol Hill. The central principle of Israel advocacy for half a century has been that support of Israel must be broad and bipartisan, and this means appealing to the Republican and Democratic mainstream and avoiding identification with controversial minorities in either party.
Second, and even more worrisome, was the question of how Hagee’s Aipac speech would be interpreted by the Jewish community. My fear was that it would confer legitimacy on him and that local communities would be tempted to embrace him as Aipac had, in the process alienating many Jews, including most young Jews — and this is precisely what has happened.
We know a great deal about Jewish young adults. We have learned from extensive research that these young people are often more socially liberal than their baby-boomer parents. They are pluralistic in their thinking, and they are tolerant of difference, especially differences in gender and sexual orientation.
They respond negatively to those who disparage other religious traditions and who make exclusivist religious claims. They are insistently centrist in their political views on the Middle East. And they are suspicious of a Jewish establishment that they see as too focused on money and insufficiently focused on values.
And so whom do we offer to these young people as a spokesman for Israel? John Hagee, who is contemptuous of Muslims, dismissive of gays, possesses a triumphalist theology and opposes a two-state solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict. If our intention was to distance our young adults from the Jewish state, we could not have made a better choice.
Even worse, a primary motive here seems to be that we see Hagee and his Christians United for Israel as a source of dollars for federation coffers. The pattern has been that in return for federation sponsorship of dinners hosted by the lobbying group, contributions are made by Christians United for Israel to our federation fundraising campaigns. The conclusion that our young people are most likely to draw from this arrangement is that we are simply selling our souls.
Let me be clear: I favor dialogue and extending a hand of friendship to Hagee and to all Evangelical Christians. Let’s learn about each other and discuss areas of agreement and disagreement. I traveled to Liberty University last year to meet with the late Reverend Jerry Falwell for precisely this purpose. But there is a vast difference between respectful dialogue and an endorsement that makes John Hagee our community’s champion of Israel.
Our federations are community organizations that operate on the principle of consensus. I urge our federations to conduct broad-based discussions to determine if a consensus really exists on endorsing Christians United for Israel events. Let’s weigh if we are trading short-term advantage for long-term disaster. Let’s ask if we are creating connections with Birthright that we are then tearing asunder with Hagee.
Let’s consider if in return for temporary financial benefit, we are alienating those who will be our leaders and donors tomorrow. And while we make these decisions, let’s remember that Israel is the most precious possession of the Jewish people and it belongs to us all.
Rabbi Eric Yoffie is president of the Union for Reform Judaism.
Comments
Yoffie needs to get off his cross and quit bashing Hagee. Frankly, Hagee has shown himself to be a sincere friend of Israel notwithstanding the outright hostility of Jews like Yoffie. As to Yoffie's concerns about alienating Jews-- well, Yoffie should know a thing or two about that. His version of "Judaism" (with its unequivocal preference for leftist causes over Torah and tradition) has either alienated or completely failed to captivate a generation of Jews. What percentage of Yoffie's Reform movement is now intermarried? For that matter, what (shrinking) percentage of that movement is even still Jewish?
It's sad, but the Jewish people have a far better friend in Hagee than we'll ever have in Yoffie.
Hagee is a neo-fascist and the Jewish community best not be associated with him. The evntual goal of Zionist Christians is the conversion of Jews. If Hagee becomes a spokesman for Jews, they have succeeded and our identity is lost.
With all due respect, Rabbi, you are speaking out of both sides of your face. You state about young American Jews, "Israel today is a marginal part of their Jewish consciousness," then go on to say, "We have learned from extensive research that these young people are often more socially liberal than their baby-boomer parents. They are pluralistic in their thinking, and they are tolerant of difference, especially differences in gender and sexual orientation.....They are insistently centrist in their political views on the Middle East..." Does it occur to you that pluralism and centrist thinking has resulted in the acceptance of terrorist entities as legitimate statesmen, resulting in the call to give terrorists their own state? Is is not that "they are tolerant of difference" which has led to a call for tolerance of those who would commit genocide? I dare say that John Hagee is a better friend to Israel than most ypung-adult American Jews, whom you characterize thusly: "Our most committed young-adult Jews are living Jewish lives in which Israel plays, at best, a peripheral part." For John Hagee, Israel does not play a marginal, or peripheral part of his life. He is committed to Israel, rather than to pseudo-pluralistic dialogue with the purveyors of genocidist jihad.
On one hand, Yehuda is right. It is shocking that Jewish day schools cost so much money and that so many Jews therefore choose not to send their kids there -- if there is any single most important project into which to pump dollars it is surely, not Birthright, but setting Jewish schools at a level where they are an affordable alternative.
And there is also much to do in integrating these schools into the global Jewish mainstream of today. Even graduates of Jewish high schools are not fluent in Hebrew. They should be, and they should be considering Israeli universities right alongside the U.S. colleges they are thinking about heading to.
Why does the graduate of a Jewish high school, for instance, who has spent twelve years in the Jewish system, not earn a Bagrut alongside the existing high school dipoma? Surely, with kids earning APs galore and so forth, this double curriculum, too, would be possible?
On the other hand, Israeli institutions have not internalized the bridge-building with diaspora Jewry they need to, either. One-Year Programs at Israeli universities exist to give American kids a nice overseas experience, not to compete for American Jews thinking about where to do an undergraduate, or a masters degree.
A flood of Israeli thinktanks has come into existence, yet not one has any programme in place to attract Jewish graduates of public policy degrees at Harvard, Princeton, or anywhere else. An innovative Masters in Creative Writing at Bar-Ilan has sprung up to attract young Jews making exciting new literature -- yet instead of attracting significant donor dollars and offering scholarships that attract the most creative young minds of a curious generation, they struggle by with the handful of people who have heard about them on a Web site, and can ante up to go.
So many Israeli institutions could integrate diaspora Jews in ways that excite and intrigue them, exactly at the stage during their lives at which they are curious to try new things, and eager to translate their wanderlust into meaningful cultural experience. And, yet, we are so far behind in doing anything to feed this. That, I think, is at least as big a problem as anything to do with AIPAC and politics.
I agree with Serge that Jewish day schools have to be made more affordable. However, it should be noted that university in Israel is really VERY cheap - just a small fraction of the cost of an American college - yet the universities in Israel are not flooded with American Jews wishing to study therein. It turns out that Hebrew education is primarily an issue of motivation. Jewish education has never been the priority of the American Jewish community. More often than not, whenever I meet an American Jewish tourist in Israel, he doesn't even know the Hebrew alphabet. It's really a very serious crisis in Jewish history. One can complain about intermarriage or about lack of affiliation in Jewish organizations or about lessening identification with Israel - but these are just the symptoms of the problem, not the problem itself. With the abandonment of a Jewish language, they've abandoned their sense of distinction.
How about connecting young (and old) Jews to God! Our most precious possession must be our relationship with HIM!
Ignorance of the Hebrew language and inability to study in Israeli universities -- which are, indeed, a bargain for Americans heading away to college or graduate school -- are certainly issues of motivation, insofar as anyone with motivation can learn the Hebrew language.
But rather than simply motivation, the issue that can be tackled, and should be, is just how easy we make it for the Hebrew language to be learnt.
Imagine Jewish parents choosing en masse to send their kids to Hebrew schools, because those schools weren't so much more expense than public schools.
Imagine Israeli universities flinging themselves wholesale into outreach programmes so that American teens who don't speak Hebrew can apply and be accepted into regular Israeli degree programmes, starting with a year or two of "transitional" studies.
Imagine creative types seeking to create new culture -- the literature, music, and so on that inspires even the least Jewishly identified -- being drawn to Israel. And, once there, naturally learning Hebrew, and so forth, as a basic fact of being there, even as the culture they create in English or other languages attracts others to their journey.
Yes, there is a motivation problem. But a combination of more intelligent programming and marketing, that draws in the Hebrew-illiterate-but-curious without requiring Herculean efforts of them, can do so much to solve it.
I am saddened by the comments by Eric Yoffie. His attacks on the Hagee organization is uncalled for. While Jews and Cristians may differ on some social issues and of course, theological issues, we have a common bond - and that is to assure the survival of the State of Israel. As many Christians have stated - We could not be good Christians without honoring and respecting our Judaic roots. We also share similar moral and values that perhaps Joffie fails to acknowledge and even worse, understand. Joffie fails to recognize that the ambivalence and "dropping away" from Jewishness among our youngsters is a Jewish problem, not a Christian problem. He should addresss the problem that over 50% of Jewish youth marry no-Jews. This is a far greater problem than strong Christian support for Israel. He has still another problem with a fundamental belief in most Chrisian circles as well as more observant Jewish circles that the land of Israel belongs to the Jews both religiously, historically and philosophically. I suspect he supports the "land for peace" concept that seems to be the hallmark of those who fail to understand the centrality of Israel and especially Jerusalem to the Jewish people. Let him concentrate on real legitimate problems and concerns instead of wasting his time casting aspersions on those who support Israel.
bravo rabbi yoffie. i couldn't agree more with your article. i am sick and tired of hearing from my fellow jews how great pastor john hagee is and isn't it wonderful what he is doing for israel! gag! dialogue is good, endorsing this man, in my opinion, is sending the wrong message. as a reform, jewish, lesbian, mom...the things this man stands for, me me sick. wake up people!
Only Hagee is your problem Rabbi Yoffie? And what about theocratic Israeli politics toward Reform Judaism? And what about racist notion toward Ethiopian and Russian Jews? Or converts? Sohnut expelled our friend’s kid from trip to Israel only because he was Russia-born.
Stephen Garramone: your post is remarkably free of any intelligent argument. Calling someone a "neo-fascist" is ugly and spiteful. In this case, it's also groundless and serves only to make you look foolish.
This so called 'Rabbi' is correct about Reform and Conservative Judaism failing to ignite a "spark" in Jews in regards to their feelings toward Israel. However, he is wrong about the cause. It's not the "increasingly right-wing and even reactionary tone that some elements of the organized community have adopted in their pronouncements on Israel," as the Rabbi says. It's today's mindless left-wing liberalism that has poisoned Judaism. Today's new religion of multi-culturalism, moral relativism, and mindless indiscrimination has rendered liberals incapable of making moral judgments. The left devalues what humankind values. Tearing down what is good and elevating what is wrong, until there is nothing left to believe in. The result is that it eliminates rational thought and the ability to fight for what is right. That's why he is right when he says "these young people are often more socially liberal than their baby-boomer parents. They are pluralistic in their thinking, and they are tolerant of difference, especially differences in gender and sexual orientation." Jewish parents have failed to raise their children with the values given to us by G-d in the Torah. This is the parent's fault. It's so sad that Pastor John Hagee believes in Jewish values more than most liberal Jews, and he has the courage to express those absolute moral values. In his speech the Pastor says there is the "TORAH WAY", and there is the "WRONG WAY". He is not only hated and feared, but he is discriminated against because he dares to discriminate. He dares to make a moral judgment. Rational thought becomes a hate crime. The Rabbi is right when he says "They are insistently centrist in their political views on the Middle East." So many on the left can't tell who the good guys are. They fall prey to the catch phrase 'cycle of violence' when in reality it is not a cycle, but rather a defensive response by Israel to violence committed against them by the Arabs. Israel has been held hostage to global opinion and relegated to the most minimal of defensive responses in reaction to attacks, which aim to ultimately wipe Israel off the map. Liberal Jews equate evil Muslim violence with Israel's retaliating in self defense. That Hagee is "contemptuous of Muslims" is a sign he has a properly operating moral compass. I understand that not every Muslim is a terrorist, but virtually every terrorist is a Muslim. Why is it that in virtually every place in the world where there is a conflict it involves Muslims not being able to get along with their neighbors? Kashmir, Indonesia, Russia, Philippines, Kosovo, Europe, Israel. There is obviously something inherent in Islam that creates this evil. Islam has been a violent religion since it's inception, preaching hate and world domination. It needs to be reformed from within. That Hagee "opposes a two-state solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict" shows he has a clear understanding of the 'no win situation' Israel is in. The Arabs don't want peace. They want to destroy Israel. When Hagee says it's a war of good vs. evil, he speaks the truth. When Hagee says it's a war of the culture of life vs. the culture of death, he speaks the truth. He gets it. Is anyone really stupid enough to believe that if Israel gives back the West Bank the Arabs will be pacified? The Arabs are honest and evil in their declaration that they want Israel obliterated off the map. They are raising and educating the next generation to do just that; and to hate not only Jews, but Christians as well. What is incredibly sad is that liberal Jews don't have the same passion for Israel that this Christian, Pastor Hagee has. I would certainly feel much more comfortable sitting in his church then in this so called Rabbi's synagogue. Below is a link to John Hagee's impassioned speech. I wish Jewish liberals would speak with even half the passion of John Hagee. Perhaps then we would stand a chance against the very real threat of Islamo-Nazism destroying not only Israel, but Judaism as we know it.
http://www.jerusalemonline.com/specials12.asp
Rabbi's(?)Eric Roffie column is a joke! The Reform Movement has done more damaged to the Jewish people than any group except for the Nazis and Muslim terrorists. The watered down version of Judaism and the acceptance of intermarriage by Reform "Judaism" has basically destroyed the American Jewish community. Pastor John Hagee cares more about Israel and the Jews than Rabbi(?) Eric Yoffie and the rest of the liberal secular Jews who want to basically live as Gentiles while calling themselves Jewish.
For Serge I'd like to add that generally non-Israeli students who come to study at Israeli universities arrive in the country knowing very little Hebrew (if any Hebrew at all). Hebrew is learnt during the first year of study. It really isn't a problem, and actually it is quite an interesting experience in life. Again, as we have agreed, it's simply a question of motivation. Do American Jews find Hebrew education to be of value? The answer is that essentially Hebrew is not even on their agenda. Ever since the abandonment of Yiddish, the primary identity of Jews in the USA has become American - and the need or importance of a Jewish language in maintaining a sense of Jewish cultural continuity is just not self-evident. It's quite an educational failure.
As a Christian I feel saddened that pastor Hagee has embraced and promoted a theology that is false. That a Christian "should" support a political nation called Israel is no where to be found in my Bible.
Like some have posted.. we should discuss and interact with other religions but the support that pastor Hagee gives Israel has done neither Jews or Christians any good. Jews should be suspicious for many reasons, chief of which is this - Hagee has said he will NOT try to convert Jews.. he is either a liar or a bad Christian.
Jews have come out and said publicly that Hagee's financial support is welcome. They HAVE sold their soul for a price. Consider this, what if he only raised $100,000 for your cause, would he be worth it.. of course not. So therefore you are purchased for a price. Any fool can put these points together.
Also, lets not forget that Christian support for Zionism (Israel) is bad theology. Hopefully, my Christian brother & sisters will come to a deeper understanding of Holy Scripture.
If anyone cares to know why its bad theology, I'd be welcome to an email conversation.
I forgot to leave my email address - cdelz3@cfl.rr.com
Re: Steven Israel
Steven, I generally concur with your observations. Only I would add, if Pastor John Hagee were a true friend, he would challenge the leaders of the Republican party to renounce President Bush's formal policy of establishing a Palestinian terrorist state in the Holy Land and the GOP's policy of encouraging Israel to ethnically cleanse (expel) Jews from their homes, from their property and from their synagogues, cemeteries, etc., as Mr. Bush had codified in the 2004 national Republican party platform in New York. If Mr. Hagee is willing to go along with this bad policy, aren't all his kind words next to meaningless?
Of Yoffie's piece I must take notice of an important fact and even an oversight on his part. The fact that Jews, as he mentions, those practicing and being involved in community and synagogues, seem less involved in Israel these days is more a fact that these people who would expectedly be among Israel’s biggest supporters, now see Israel’s society as growing ever more secular and less concerned or connected with the Jewishness and spirituality that helped form the state out of the ashes of the Holocaust.
The frontier Zionism and the zeal that connected the land with the Jewish people and their heritage seems to be waning within Israel – as the in fighting in government sectors suggest and the ever widening chasm between those that want a state with some sort of Jewish identity and those that want a purely westernized secular mecca on the Mediterranean would indicate.
Truth be told, without identifying with Jewish roots, without a need or the “encumbrance” of a Jewish identity (not a religious State where the Torah equivalent of Shariah law is imposed, but the fight and struggle to maintain the country as a Jewish homeland with respect for Jewish values and laws) than why fight and die for a piece of land? Israelis could easily find underdeveloped property in some western country and make it their home too with all the trappings of the west and with none of the hassles of fighting off Arab neighbors and even Jewish religious zealots who would otherwise cramp their style.
I also say that the success and the lifestyle many Israelis have come to appreciate from technological, medical and agricultural advances made in Israel are owned largely in part to the struggle to survive, to create a livable ecosystem, to heal the wounded from battle, to battle the world for identity and recognition, and to prove that we earned the land we call our home. To abandon that, is to reject what Israel is and was all about.
I say that Pastor Hagee’s support is, in fact, a turn on, not a turn off, to the willing masses of U.S. Jews who are seeking a reason to want for Israel again. People like him show that the fight for the Jewishness of the land is not just our fight, but one that has support and a following and one that has the impact to ensure that Israel and Jewish remain synonymous.
Rabbi Yoffie is off the mark when he talks of these as opposing agendas. They are nearly one in the same, in fact. While the views and positions Yoffie expresses as being the key turnoffs for American Jews as far as Hagee’s politics go, he misses the very point that it is the very recognition of tradition that religious and Jewishly connected Americans are now seeking for Israel to give them the impetus to reconnect with Israel’s fight for survival. It is the very grasp of western progressiveness in every form and a near rejection of anything associated with Jewishness that has created the disaffection of American Jews and Israelis within Israel itself.
Bottom line. There is no good reason to defend Israel for Jews as a homeland at this point in time if Jews don’t see the need for Israel’s rightful claim as a Jewish state, defending tradition and celebrating 5000 years of Biblical history and divine providence.
I wonder if Juda has ever spent time in Israel. The Jewishness of the society and the land is just overwhelming. Jewish education is universal, and the Torah is literally quoted by everyone as a matter of routine. A very large percentage of the population is traditional, and the cycle of Jewish holidays is the framework of our cultural expression. If Diaspora support for Israel seems to be lessening, the reason for it is the lessening of Jewish identity there. In the Diaspora, Jewish identity is a secondary or even a marginal aspect of one's life. In Israel, one's Jewish identity remains a primary aspect of life - and that has never changed.
Dear Yehuda
I can assure you that Juda has been to Israel and he does indeed look beyond the neighborhoods that you apparently spend most of your time in. While in many aspects of daily life in many of Israel's communities do reflect Torah Judaism, there are a significant portion of Israelis who reject and even oppose this way of life for them or their leadership. I believe that is what was being referred to.
It would be devastating to Israel's future if you and like-minded people were to sit on their laurels believing that there is no existential threat to Israel from within the country itself. Israel needs to find its Jewish roots once more and keep those as its national identity.
I’m glad to see there is passion for it.
As a Federation member, I agree with Rabbi Yoffie's observations. For a Federation to support Rev. Hagee is a direct contradiction to it's Mission Statement. Our Federation sponsored A Night for Israel with the expectation of receiving $500,000 for the UJC. We got $30,000. And for that,the community was divided...just as the letters being received by the Forward in response to this article. A Federation must have principles it lives by, and does not sell the community's good will to Evangilists like Rev.Hagee. In our case,the Board was misguided regardless of the dollars received.
Re: Steve Klein
Steve,
I agree with you about the bad policies of the Bush Administration. I am no fan of his. It seems like we always have to accept the least of two evils with our political parties. Although not as supportive as I would like, the republican party is the best we have regarding Israel. I think the Pastor and many of us that clearly see the danger to Israel have no where else to go. We are beholden to Arab oil because of our restrictive environmental policies and must be careful. Unlike foolish liberal democrats at least they seem to be able to distinguish between good and evil. The Israelis are so desperate for peace and so tired of fighting they went along with the idiocy of Sharon unilaterally giving the Arabs land for nothing in return. At this point I don't think there is a way of turning back in Gaza. I just hope they don't continue and also give them the West Bank. When I listened to the Pastor's speech it made me sad that a liberal Jew would never speak so highly of Judaism or Israel. The chutzpah of people like Yoffie who have done more damage to Judaism then any Christian is beyond belief.
Steve Klein:
Read this article by Mort Zuckerman. Sometimes less is more.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/articles/070520/28edit_print.htm
As one of those born-again, Bible-believing Christian Zionists that Rabbi Yoffie is so afraid of, I feel both sadness and amusement at his comments. What really baffles me is why he thinks that simply inviting Pastor Hagee to address the AIPAC convention qualifies him as being the spokesman for American Jewry. He has never claimed to represent the Jewish community. He represents the Christian community who supports Israel and it was in that capacity that he addressed the AIPAC convention. I happen to be a member of both AIPAC and his organization Christians United For Israel. Yeah, that's right! AIPAC actually let me, a Christian Zionist, join their organization and what's more, I was referred to AIPAC by a Jewish friend. Go figure! Pastor Hagee's conservative moral values seem to be more of an issue with Yoffie than the fact that he is a Christian Zionist. Most liberals tend to view the conservative Christian church as a bunch of ignorant, uneducated, backwoods crackers hopelessly out of touch with modern society. Hey Rabbi, wasn't it the Torah that said "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination"? The Torah repeatedly states that the Jewish people are to be a peculiar people and a holy nation unto G-d not become like the rest of the liberal pagan Gentile world. Rabbi Yoffie probably thinks that the Torah was written by a bunch of old fuddy-duddies and is no longer relevant to today's modern progressive society (as do many Christians, I'm sorry to say). I am sorry that young Jewish people are leaving Judaism, but what does that have to do with us? I think it has more to do with the fact that American Judaism has failed to do it's job. Yoffie and his ilk need to start cleaning up their own house instead of taking pot shots at Christians like Pastor Hagee who has done more for Israel than American Reform Judaism has ever done. And as for opposing a two-state solution, check out Judges Chapter 11. Guess what? G-d opposes a two-state solution too! Eric Yoffie needs to quit bashing Christian Zionists and get back on his meds. For sure y'all!
To E.E I would like to say that Jewish identity in Israel is expressed by all - by those who live by 'Torah Judaism' and by the non-religious as well. Very often, when talking with Diaspora Jews, one hears that Jewishness is a religious phenomenon. Even with that criterion, the situation in Israel is simply fantastic. The percentage of traditional Jews is simply many, many times higher than any Diaspora community. However, the amazing aspect of life in Israel is the involvement and participation of non-religious Jews in the central events of Jewish history. The revival of Hebrew, the creation of Hebrew literature and culture, the founding of Jewish statehood and defending the Land of Israel are all endeavors that non-religious Jews were the central players. In Israel, Hebrew education is universal, intermarriage is so very rare and one's involvement in Jewish life and issues is so self-evident (and overwhelming) - yet you are worried about an 'existential threat from within'. In the Diaspora, Hebrew education is a failure, intermarriage is the norm and involvement in Jewish life and issues touches only a fraction of the Jewish community - yet I've never heard that an 'existential threat from within' is endangering Jewish life. It would seem that your expectations from Israel are so high that she can only be seen in terms of disappointment. I wish that I would be so 'disappointed' as to meet a Diaspora Jew - traditional or non-traditional - who can read a book in Hebrew, can quote the Torah and has given years of his life (and risked his very life) in defending the interests of the Jewish people.
Mary Fall wrote: "And as for opposing a two-state solution, check out Judges Chapter 11."
Mary, This is one of my favorites; this chapter. When I get into a discussion with Muslims about the land of Israel -- and to whom it belongs --- I often quote this passage by the ancient judge (Jephthah):
'Do you not possess what Chemosh (today it is "Allah") your god gives you to possess? So whatever the Lord our God has driven out before us, we will possess it'.
Re: Steven Israel
Dear Steven, I can tell you, as a thirty-six year registered (politically conservative, pro-life, pro-family, etc., Jewish) Republican, I've about had it with voting for the lessor of the two evils. Additionally, I expect more from self-professed Christian conservatives like Mr. Bush. He says he believes in this Jewish savior that he calls his "favorite philosopher." Why does he not act on it then? Why is this Christian president at war with the land of Israel and the G-d of Israel? I don't know why so many Christians and Jews believe Bush is this great friend to Israel. He is not. He's got to be amongst the worst Republican presidents in my life time.
I wrote Pastor Hagee a letter asking that he work to remove this terrible appeasement language that Bush put in our national party platform at the 2004 national party convention. I know the letter was given to him by an aid because he told me he would deliver my letter to the pastor. We'll see if Mr. Hagee is a true friend. We'll see what he does.
This is a group young Jews should be exposed to http://www.jtf.org/
This is a group young Jews should be exposed to http://www.jtf.org/
Dear Mary Fall. You've become Judaized. I see that you even now type the word God as "G-d." For your own sake, please go back and read Galatians Chapter 3.
Chris Delzio cdelz3@cfl.rr.com
Dear Chris Delzio, nice to see the "Christian" anti-Semite faction is still alive 'n kickin'. We Christian Zionists have much work to do. I know quite well the contents of Galatians Ch. 3, thank you! I also know the difference between salvation by grace and salvation by works. I am quite baffled by your Judaizer comment. If you mean to equate me with the Jewish people, then you couldn't have given me a higher compliment! My decision to type the name G-d has nothing to do with works or salvation. It is simply something I have chosen to do out of sensitivity and respect for the Jewish readers of my posts. It has nothing to do with salvation and everything to do with courtesy and respect. Learn some! Awfully nice of you to worry your little brain about my salvation though. You should do yourself a favor and find out where your hating attitudes toward the Jewish people come from (Hint: Satan hates everything that G-d loves). Oh by the way, I also sometimes attend synagogue services to worship and fellowship with my local Jewish brethren whose company I much prefer to those of your persuasion. Come to think of it, this week is Shavuot. Think I'll take my Jew-loving butt to a synagogue service. Shalom!
Steve Klein wrote: "Mary, this is one of my favorites; this chapter." (Judges Ch. 11)
Yeah, isn't it great! G-d comes up with some good ones, doesn't he? However the real thigh-slapper comes in verse 13 when the king of Ammon tells Jephthah "now therefore restore those lands again peaceably!" LOL! LOL! Do we hear an echo?
Mary, Question for you.. who's God are you praying to?
--chris
I'll rephrase the question.. do you pray to the Jewish god or the Christian God when your in synagogue?
In all reality, we as Christians are not looking to convert the Jewish people. As Christians we understand that this will be done by G-d Himself. We do on the other hand join in solidarity with the Jews because you are his Holy, chosen people. He gave the Torah to the Jewish people ,who in turn, through their holy living and personal relationship with the Father was to bring the rest of the world back into fellowship with Him. When that failed we as Christians believe that Jesus was the Massiah as prophesied by the Torah. Now, that is our belief. We also believe that any person or nation who goes against Isreal will be punished. What the Father gave to the Isrelites no man can take away. Isreal was given to them by Him if you are a Jew and think you can live in peace with others of a different faith you are sadly decieved. Have you not read your own history. Only those who are willing to accept your beliefs and religious ways will make good neighbors. The rest are open to be deceived by satan. We out of obedience to the Father and what we believe to be true want only to support the Isreali people. The rest will be taken care of by G-d's Holy Spirit. Not only that it doesn't matter what anyone thinks or says, no matter how many lives have been needlessly lost, Isreal will always belong to the Jews because G-d said so. The time is nearing when he again will supernaturally intercede on Isreal's behalf where no man or nation can deny the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The sad part is that the young Jewish people did not witness the supernatural acts of G-d. The same when they were led out of Egypt by Moses. But soon that will all change and there will be a revival. The times of the Gentiles is almost if not already fulfilled. We will then see the truth of the matter. May G-d get all the glory forever and ever amen.
Chris Delzio said:
“I'll rephrase the question.. do you pray to the Jewish god or the Christian God when your in synagogue?”
Dear Chris, I do not wish to disappoint you. There is only one God (or G-d). Steve
Chis, Mary Fall wrote: “Dear Chris Delzio, nice to see the "Christian" anti-Semite faction is still alive 'n kickin'.
Is Mary right. Do you despise Jews and Israel?
Chris, you're kidding right? The level of your ignorance is both amusing and frightening. Your question makes absolutely no sense. The Christian G-d and the Jewish G-d???? Wherever did you get an idea like that? Please remember that nearly two-thirds of your Christian Bible contains the Jewish Bible. What happened, did G-d start off being the Jewish G-d and as soon as He hit the New Testament decide that He was now the Christian G-d? Did G-d suddenly say at the beginning of Matthew "Ta-dah! I am now the Christian G-d"? He said in Malachi 3:6 "For I am the Lord, I change not". The answer to your question is, I pray to the same G-d that Jesus prayed to when He went to synagogue! And in case you doubt that Jesus ever attended synagogue check out Mt 12:9, 13:54, Mk 1:21-29, 3:1, 6:2, Lk 4:16, 4:33-38, 6:6, 13:10, Jn 6:59, 18:20 for starters.
Chris, you're kidding right? The level of your ignorance is both amusing and frightening. Your question makes absolutely no sense. The Christian G-d and the Jewish G-d???? Wherever did you get an idea like that? Please remember that nearly two-thirds of your Christian Bible contains the Jewish Bible. What happened, did G-d start off being the Jewish G-d and as soon as He hit the New Testament decide that He was now the Christian G-d? Did G-d suddenly say at the beginning of Matthew "Ta-dah! I am now the Christian G-d"? He said in Malachi 3:6 "For I am the Lord, I change not". The answer to your question is, I pray to the same G-d that Jesus prayed to when He went to synagogue! And in case you doubt that Jesus ever attended synagogue check out Mt 12:9, 13:54, Mk 1:21-29, 3:1, 6:2, Lk 4:16, 4:33-38, 6:6, 13:10, Jn 6:59, 18:20 for starters.
Mary, What a great non-answer!
As a Christian your definition of God should be totally different then a Jewish persons definition of God. Hence.. not the same god.
Mary, hopefully you'll say God is: a triune God; comprising of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Steve, what's your definition? I'm just trying to make a point here.
Mary, What a great non-answer!
As a Christian your definition of God should be totally different then a Jewish persons definition of God. Hence.. not the same god.
Mary, hopefully you'll say God is: a triune God; comprising of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Steve, what's your definition? I'm just trying to make a point here.
Bruce wrote: "Mary, hopefully you'll say God is: a triune God; comprising of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
"Steve, what's your definition? I'm just trying to make a point here.”
What is my answer Chris? God is unique. He is one and only one. "Hear O Israel, the L-rd our G-d, the L-rd is one." (Deu chapter 6)
Steve
Chris, this diatribe of yours is truly beginning to get tiresome. Of course I believe in a triune G-d. But He is only one G-d not 3 g-ds. The Jews have always believed in one G-d as opposed to their polytheistic neighbors. "Hear O Israel, the Lord our G-d, the Lord is one". The Jews believe in the G-d that has been revealed to them through their Scriptures. G-d is who He is no matter who believes what. And if you really want to get technical about the whole thing, whenever Jesus prayed, He always prayed to the Father. He didn't pray to Himself and He didn't pray to the Holy Spirit. I encourage you to follow the advice of Romans 11:18 and "boast not against the branches." In fact, go back and read Romans Ch. 9-11 V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y! Now, about these Jew-hating attitudes of yours.........
Steve Klein wrote: "Is Mary right. Do you despise Jews and Israel?"
Steve, I think we can safely assume that the answer is yes! What do you think?
Mary, So you'll agree then, in the synagogue, you're praying to a God that's different from our Jewish friends. Why don't you just come out and admit it? What are you afraid of? Hurting someones feelings? You can't be that hard up for friends.
It's sad that any difference is termed Jew hater, anti-semite, etc.. etc.. I'm actually flattered when this occurs, it means you've been reduced to name calling.
Mary, So you'll agree then, in the synagogue, you're praying to a God that's different from our Jewish friends. Why don't you just come out and admit it? What are you afraid of? Hurting someones feelings? You can't be that hard up for friends.
It's sad that any difference is termed Jew hater, anti-semite, etc.. etc.. I'm actually flattered when this occurs, it means you've been reduced to name calling.
Chris, you are truly a sad and pathetic person and I will pray for you. Do you really think Jewish people are so stupid and ignorant that they don't know what Christians believe? They are a whole lot smarter than you or me. So what if they don't view G-d in the exact same way that I do. Am I supposed to hate them because of it? They are better people than you could ever hope to be. And as far as the name-calling goes, I simply call a spade a spade or in your case an anti-Semite an anti-Semite. I have yet to hear you come out and admit that you hate Jews. What are you afraid of? Hurting someone's feelings? And as for being hard up for friends, you certainly can't have many. Now, as much as I would love to waste more time engaging in your childish little games I must be about my Father's business. In other words, any further petty, anti-Jewish comments you make will be made to yourself as I do not intend to return to this forum. And for your own good, learn some love and respect for your fellow man, especially G-d's chosen people. Shalom!
Steve Klein wrote: "I wrote Pastor Hagee a letter asking that he work to remove this terrible appeasement language that Bush put in our national party platform at the 2004 national party convention."
Steve, I would like to hear his response to this myself. Let me know when you hear something, marycfall@netzero.com.
I happened upon your article by accident, researching. I read it with interest, and I feel a reread would be even better. The impression I take with me, as most authors probably intend, would be your last line. For Now I would like to make a response devoted only to that sentence. I am inspired by the notion that 'Israel is the most precious possession of the Jewish people' but do you mean geographical, terrain on the fixed coordinates? Or do you mean in the abstract: that is, the history teachings and ministering effects by its adherants upon the rest of us in the world? of the world?
For Holly Johns: Israel expresses Jewish peoplehood. This peoplehood is both 'geographical'(every people has its own territory or 'fixed coordinates' as you put it) and linguistic (every people has its own language that connects it to its past and through which it produces its unique culture). In modern times, peoples wish to express their identities in nation-states that are instuments in protecting their particular interests. After centuries of homelessness, and with the disintegration of the Jewish community in modern times (since the French Revolution) - Israel has indeed become the most precious possession of the Jewish people, providing the tools for the continued collective existence of the Jews as a distinct ethnicity.
Off the track folks, The problem is Hagee. He's making millions off his crap and gives some to Israel but keeps most for himself. Sort of like Robin Hood. He didn’t steal from the rich and give to the poor. He stole from everyone and kept everything. He had a good spin doctor. Hagee's ultimate goal is conversion of Jews to belief in Jesus (claims that God will do it in the second coming). Jews shouldn’t think they can outsmart him – take his money and run. He’s a con artist. Nothing wrong with a Jew who wants to believe in Christ. Mendelsohn's family did it years ago in Germany (became Lutheran). But then they called it “Lutheran” or whatever Christian group that was joined. This “Jews for Jesus” or “Messianic Jews” is a load of crap. All they are is another small sect of Christians. Nothing wrong with that, but call it what it is.
As for God's people - I don't recall God having any special people. I've seen a lot of good Christians and Moslems and Jews and a lot of bastards in all. To the Jews out there reading this - remember Abie Reles (Murder, Inc.?) - he wasn't a classic example of God's people. Jews are no better than anyone else but they aren't any worse.
Read the Jefferson Bible (written by our third President, Thomas Jefferson) while he was President. He strips the books (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) about Jesus of the supernatural and focuses on the just the teachings. Quite a good and universal message for all in our relations to one another and talking of a "God's people" sure as hell ain't one of them. By the way, Jefferson thought the Book of Revelations was written by a lunatic.
Jesus was ordered to death by the San Hedrin and actually executed by the Romans. Some Jews wanted it and some Gentiles did it - kind of a universal metaphor in itself in that the whole world is to blame for rejecting the message of "take care of each other."
Don't use the Torah as a reference because most of its rules are unclear and couldn't be done anyway. You have to take from the Torah the general gist of what it says to apply it. The Fundamentalist Protestants or Super-Duper Orthodox Jews have one thing in common - they can't understand the inexactness and ambiguity of language. The Roman Catholic Church, for all its problems, does understand this and does not hold the Bible as the word of God (divinely inspired - yes, literally true - no).
Hagee is a charlatan and an opportunist. Jews who support him should be ashamed. And remember, nothing wrong with being Jewish, Christian or Moslem. You'll get where you going to go by your own deeds. The first ones that are going nowhere are those who claim they are chosen by God. No one is chosen by God. False pride is one of the seven deadlies and don't get roped into it.
Mr. Garramore, as to your assessment that Pastor Hagee is a charlatan and an opportunist, you may well be correct.
The jury is yet out for me. I have written Mr. Hagee and asked him to address a critical issue in the months to come; the newly adopted Republican party platform on Israeland the Middle East strong-armed through by the Bush - Rove folks at the national party convention in New York, August 2004.
If Mr. Hagee dodges my request then I will be forced to agree with you; he is indeed a charlatan.
Pastor Hagee's effort to unite Christians with Jews is motivated by a great love for the Jewish people. A love that transcends barriers. Receiving that good will with contempt and suspicion is unfortunate. Any intelligent and wise young person will perceive opposition to their liberal values as a valid voice and examine their own bigotry against countering voices. You insult young people by assuming they are not capable, much less motivated, to contemplate such introspection.
Absolutely right. Brilliant article!
Hey, Mr. Kleinn -
You got it! You don't have to be a damn rocket scientist to see through this crap. Just like the Robin Hood analogy ("stole from everyone and kept everything - he had a good press agent" - Mel Brooks "The 2000 year old man" 1975). A con man is a con man is a con man.
Christian love of Jews? Forget it... They still blamed us for Deicide and we won't accept Jesus in spite of their "logic." We are singled out for a more ultimate punishment.
Individual Christians are different because as they follow their common sense and deal with people individually. Remember Thomas Jefferson? He was a bloody genius and he wasn't even part Jewish. So much for that crap that we are better than the rest of the world.
Even the current Pope wants to reinstate the Latin liturgy which calls for the conversion of the Jews.
These guys (Christian Zionists) don't love us, they want to change us or damn us. They come with smiles but behind our backs say just the opposite.
Any Jew who thinks he can outsmart them and get their money for nothing and run - don't even go there. Everything has a price including your soul. Whenever Jews have felt accepted in a society - wham! They get the shaft. Ironically, in countries like Morocco and Turkey where Jews and Moslems go back to before Christ was a corporal they get along. Know why? Because they have to deal with each other in business.
Believe half of what you see and nothing of what you hear, and believe me, I believe nothing of what Hagee says. The only guy I distrust more is Bush. But he may be just too stupid to get things right.
Where did I get my Italian name from? It was my Roman Catholic Dad. I am not one of the original Italian Jews whose family ties go back 2000+ years there - I am a true half-breed. That means being half Italian and half Jewish I don't know whether to steal it or buy it wholesale.
Stephen, I am not quite as cynical as you. Not "yet." I am willing to give Pastor Hagee, Gary Bauer and other pro-Israel Evangelicals the benefit of the doubt. Neither am I as sanguine as Brook F.
I'm not quite sure I would place these Christian friends of Israel in the same category as the Vatican as you do. We'll see.
Pastor Hagee's Christians United For Israel (CUFI) is holding a summit this July in Washington. As I wrote earlier, the Republican National Party -- the platform writing committee in New York, 2004 --- under Bush adopted language in our national party platform urging that a Palestinian (terrorist) state be established in the Holy Land; Republicans commended Israel for her willingness to uproot (expel) whole Jewish families in the midst of daily terrorism and violence, in order to establish a Jew-free (judenrein) state for the Palestinian Muslims who do not want any Jews in their state. Jews were expelled in Aug. 2005 from Gaza and northern Samaria "only because they are Jews!"
http://www.gop.com/media/2004platform.pdf
"Republicans agree with President Bush that Israel’s plan to remove all settlements from Gaza and several settlements from the West Bank is a courageous step toward peace in the face of continuing terrorist violence."
I sent a letter to Pastor Hagee and a copy to Gary Bauer asking that they challenge Republican party leadership and candidates for U.S. president to alter this invidious language at the 2008 national party convention. Hagee's aid informed me that Mr. Hagee indeed read my letter. I also sent them a resolution that CUFI could adopt and send to Republican party leaders and candidates for office.
So we shall see if as you claim, Mr. Hagee is an opportunist who is able to raise lots of money but only give lip service or if he is a genuine friend of Israel's.
For Hagee, Bauer ---- and other leaders of CUFI --- to go against Republican party policy as I've asked them to do, might place at risk some of their associations with powerful folks in Washington, with Republican leaders in very high places. But if they are true Christians as they say, and if they serve this Jewish savior they claim to serve, then won't they set aside worldly power and gain in order to do the Almighty's will?
Though Eric Yoffe is my fellow Jew, I share far more values with John Hagee than I do with Yoffe. Though Yoffe won't admit it, he has shown greater trust to the terrorist Palestinian Arabs than he does toward our wonderful Evangelical Christian friends.
Shame on Eric Yoffie. As a young American Jewish woman who has taught Conservative Hebrew School for many years...All I can say is: Sour Grapes for "Rabbi" Yoffie and HATS OFF (or yamulkas on!)to a real teacher, courageous leader & true friend of Israel-Pastor Hagee! NOTE to Eric: you should be such a mensch.
Rabbi Yoffie, I agree completely with your thoughts concerning the Jewish people embracing John Hagee. He is, as you say, contemptuous of Muslims and, in my opinion, completely intolerant of anyone that does not agree with the views of the Christian right. I am by faith a Christian. However, I am not supportive of ministers like Hagee that preach intolerance. It seems to me, that Hagee, and others like him, want to see a decisive battle between Israel, with Christian support, and Islam. I do not understand how they reconcile that desire with Christianity. I understand the importance to Christianity of supporting Israel. and , without question, Israel's right to defend itself against an unquestionably hostile Arab mentality. However, as far as the middle east is concerned,every peaceful option should be exhausted before resorting to the extremes that Hagee and his followers advocate. John Hagee ,and others like him ,only make a difficult situation worse. His hawkish mind set serves neither Christianity or Judaism. It is self serving at best. You are correct , in your belief, that support from the Christian right does come with a price. Support of your cause, from the extreme Christian right , will alienate a substantial number of more mainstream Christians. Also, I'm sure, many young Jews do not feel they need someone like Hagee to speak for them. Hagee is an extremist. And extremism is a dangerous thing, whether the extremists be Muslims, Christians or Jews.
The people of the world should unite to stop John Hagee, and people like him, from starting WWIII, by their actions and words.
As a Christian, I agree with Rabbi Yoffie. I don't think that any reasoning Jew would want to hitch his wagon behind this Hagee Huckster. The way a number of Christians view the relationship between Hagee, AIPAC and the Likud Party is that that AIPAC and especially Likud, are taking advantage of this simpleton Christian Zionist. As you know, this is not right. I know that in the short run Hagee may be a useful idiot, but in the long run it will turn around and bite you. John Hagee and Pat Robertson are both viewed by many Christians as being too much into money, business, and the Likud Party and not enough into living the Gospel ideals themselves.
RABBI YOFFIE, LET'S ALL UNITE TOGETHER JEWS AND CHRISTIANS,IN THESE LAST DAYS TO PRAY FOR ISRAEL.STOP BEING CRITICAL OF PASTOR HAGEE BECAUSE CHRISTIANS AND JEWS ARE ALL WORSHIPING THE SAME GOD AND THAT MEANS WE ALL WANT PEACE FOR ISRAEL.LET'S PRAY AND WORK TOGETHER FOR THE COMMON GOOD OF ALL LIKE THE WORD OF GOD IS WRITTEN.
In a world that is mostly hostile to Jews, you should not be so quick to bash those that have such a deep love for Israel and all the Jews as does Pastor Hagee and most evagelical Christians.
after going through all the mails here i feel so sad that in the face of onslaught by muslims on all nations of the end, we are more divided than ever in tackling the menance posed by this group.i could not believe that a rabbi will say that pastor is contemptous of muslims,i am a black and have nothing at stake in the jews/muslims affair but i know that it is time that christians join hands together to help israel to survive in the midst of the aggression from muslims. a great many jews have become defeatist and are willing to forgo even west jerusalem to appease the arabs and muslims,i dont think they would have had a home to call theirs at all had their fore fathers not given their blood to secure a home for them.
For those of us in the diaspora who truly love Israel, we should welcome the work being done by John Hagee. Any organization who stands up for Israel, and supports Israel dreserves our gratitude. While I may not agree with everything he says, If he can influence and organize Evangelical Christians worldwide, and use this power to influence political decisions vis-a vis support for Israel, then God bless him. Let's face it - the enemies of Israel are the enemies of Christianity and the West. Islam will not reform from within, and the majority of Muslims worldwide support the global jihad by their very silence, and, like it or not, threaten the entire world. The next World War will be upon us as soon as the terrorists acquire weapons of mass desrtuction, and, make no mistake - they will use them! I only wish I could see the same passionate Zionist leadership from Israel's present corrupt government. No great leaders with the status of Ben-Gurion, Moshe dayan, Golda meir, etc etc, appear to be on the Horizon. Israel must live - that's the bottom line- and if John Hagee is a person who can keep the Zionist dream alive, then he deserves our support!! Listen to his speech at the recent DBS conference in Washington..and tell me you are not moved by it.
Israel lives!!
Hagee and his ilk are Idiots. But he sure brings in the donations.
John Hagee's agenda for Israel is dangerous. His end-time concentration speaks to a violent end where Jesus Christ will remain supreme and rule from Jerusalem. This of course is well known and need not be further explored. I was disappointed to learn that Mr. Hagee was embraced by AIPAC. Big mistake, money notwithstanding. I place Hagee right alongside the Neturei Karta as enemies of the modern state of Israel.
This comment is to Altum and Mary Fall - Just what are you trying to put forth by not using the word GOD in your comments? I don't care who you think you are attempting to not offend. You most certainly are offending me and I would hope, every Christian on this planet, called Earth. God, The Almighty God, YAWEH, IMMANUEL, Heavenly Father, and every other name that my Bible tells me are God's names will be and must be used by people who call themselves Christians. I surely hope that you are a Christian and, if so, act like one. Don't hide your light under a superficial bushel!!
i would like to receive the service that was broadcast on sun aug aug 12, 2007. it was on either channel 14/22. thank you in advance.
Bible based Christianity, unlike John Hagee's Christianity, or even Catholic Christianity, views present day Israel as a secular nation, not the nation of God as in the old days (pre AD70). Durng those years, in what the Bible refers to as the "end times," God concluded all Israel in unbelief (Romans 11:32), meaning that He took away the special spiritual status of Israelites, so that the way would be opened to all people to come to the Father through faith in the Son, Jesus Christ. The term "Jew" is religious, not ethnic, so therefore, there are no more Jews in the world, and consequently, no godly nation of Israel. But the present day "Jew," rejects the New Testament, and does not believe that Jesus Christ of 2000 years ago is the true Messiah. So there is no basis for "dialogue" between "Jew" and Christian.
But to each his own. We can respect each other, just as we can respect people of any other religion. But Scripturally, there can never be a "joining of hands" based on the unfounded theory that Christianity has its "roots" in Israel. Live and let live. Send John Hagee home.
C.P. Machovsky
I Love you guys.. I love Pastor John hagee so much and I really support Jewish people in my life. Because they are apple of God.. we need to support them..!!
Dear Rabbi Eric Yoffie,
It has come to my attention that you are a biased person yourself. Please don't think that you are being lead in the correct direction. Hagee Is trying to let you , the Jewish community, and the world the know end times are here. He wants only that the world realize that the messiah has been and gone. The Lord JEsus Christ is the only way you and the world will find peace. You are on the verge of following the anti-christ and truely believeing he is the messiah. He's not. Only Jesus is. You willl believe this man because he will appeal to you and the Jewish community. He will be execpting of Gays and all others that aren't of God.PLease open your heart and see all Hagee is trying to say to change your ways the Rapture is to come soon. May the Lord God almighty bless you and keep you. YOu missed Jesus once please don't miss him again and don't critize his messenger. Hagee sayes what is needed to be heard.
tolerance in gender and sexual orientation are you out of your mind. i think you better read Leviticus brother.
Why worry about things you have no control over. America is crumbling so lets be concerned with Israel. Anyone that gives credibility to any religious leader Christian of Jewish is sheeple. There is a cleansing on its way. The liars and frauds will be rooted out. Don't get sucked into thinking on that level. It is being done to divide us. Peace to all, GT
Rabbi Yoffie states without citation:"We know a great deal about Jewish young adults. We have learned from extensive research that these young people are often more socially liberal than their baby-boomer parents. They are pluralistic in their thinking, and they are tolerant of difference, especially differences in gender and sexual orientation.
They respond negatively to those who disparage other religious traditions and who make exclusivist religious claims. They are insistently centrist in their political views on the Middle East. And they are suspicious of a Jewish establishment that they see as too focused on money and insufficiently focused on values." Would it be possible to obtain citations of the "extensive research" that he refers to?
Thank you. Alan Chesler San Antonio, Texas
You are so wrong. Your ideas of touchy-feely lefty Jews is very sixties, you will see something new happening if you open your eyes. As the generations pass on , we keep on healing as a people and have outgrown yet deeper layers of the Jewish self-hatred that still lies beneath your view. Zionism alive and well for young people .
I agree with everything that was written in this article. We, as Christians, can love and support the Jewish people and the state of Isreal, but not at the expense of filling Hagee's and CUFI's coffers. I believe in the bible and follow to the best of my abilities the word of God. I bless the Jewish people and Isreal and love with all my heart. Money has nothing to do with it. I do not condemn people whose lives are different and unlike HAGEE, DO NOT BELIEVE in a two-covenant bible. I just wish he's stop doing what he is doing and realize that by following God's words, we are all loving and honoring Isreal and its people.
It is high time that God punish those that commit crimes against humanity through lies and outright manipulation of fact. If there is one prayer I do, let it be that God punish those lying tongues and their accomplices like AIPAC, and the money driven less than truthful (so-called) news.. aka journalist.. let plague come upon Thee.
Does Hagee skim off the top of these contributions, many of which are now coming from Jews who come to "Night for Israel" events? I witnessed 20 years ago an event when he was much smaller, co-sponsored with Hadasssah a gathering of funds person to person. It was counted in the back, with no Hadassah rep present, and then an amount as a gift was given back to Hadassah. Does his livelihood depend on these contributions?
Rabbi I have to respectfully disagree with you in your article. This libealism and pluralism you speak of is going to destroy your country. If Israel would of had this mindset in 1947 it would of never declared its independence. How many times have the Arabs attacked Israel to destroy it and what makes you think that they want to not destroy it now? Why do you think they dont let the "palestinians" fully integrate into their societies? Your social liberalism is interesting to me also. What does God say in the Torah about homosexuality, sex out side of marriage, infidelity and other so called controversial issues? Has God suddenly changed his mind? I doubt that, what has changed is that people no longer fear or respect God and so we want what he says to justify our sins so we dont offend anyone. I have listened to John Hagee and others on the topic of Israel. I challenge you to find a more forceful and determined group of Israel and Jewish supporters outside of the evangelical movement. What other country is going to stop Iran from erradicating Israel off the map? Europe? China? Russia? Why must we constantly repeat history, the nations of the middle east hate Israel and so does Islam that is an undeniable fact, so instead of teaching pluralism I would suggest you teach young Jews the real history of Israel and to read through the propoganda war that is being waged agains Israel. I say it is a propoganda war because how else do you explain Arafat getting a Nobel Peace prize?
I have read the various comments regarding John Hagee. Before passing judgment, I would suggest reading his books "Countdown to Jerusalem" and "In Defense of Israel". I believe that Mr. Hagee is sincere in his love for Israel and for the Jewish people. He has met with many Israeli leaders, including Benjamin Netenyahu, who have been very grateful for his championing the Israeli cause. In these troubled times, it is comforting to know that Israel has a friend like John Hagee.
I am a born again christian and I hold out my hand all Gods children and hope one day we can all live in peace and walk together hand in hand. I desire to learn the jewish ways.
There seems to be a flaw in some of these arguments.
Hagee is not remotely recognisable as a Christian to most Christians .
Dear Eric, It's been a long time since I have read a as much nonsense as you have written here. Short term(as you call it) Israel is fighting for it's life. Did you support Isreal by TRAVELLING there during the intifida,as these Christians did ?
I am certain you did not. We should judge people by their ACTIONS and bot their words. You are big on words but short on actions
As a jewish man I love you mr hagee.there is no one like you ,and will never be .you are the example of what goodness is.I am proud to be liveng in the same generation as you.God bless you ,and give you a long life.Amen
I was at last year's AIPAC Policy Conference but skipped the dinner that Hagee spoke at. The next day everybody was talking about how great he was. I didn't know who he was until now, and boy am I glad I didn't go. I don't care how strong a supporter of Israel he is, we don't need this type of person having anything to do with furthering U.S.-Israel relations. Fools like Dennis Praeger are always pushing alliances with evangelicals and pooh-poohs there interest in having us converted for our salvation. At least Ann Coulter is upfront about her bigotry.
AIPAC and every Jewish organization should be vigilant in screening people like this before letting them associate at all with their cause.
"Paul said:
Though Eric Yoffe is my fellow Jew, I share far more values with John Hagee than I do with Yoffe. Though Yoffe won't admit it, he has shown greater trust to the terrorist Palestinian Arabs than he does toward our wonderful Evangelical Christian friends."
What do you think about his apocalyptic visions and his hate speech components? Or his conspiracy theories? Or e.g. the fact that the Holocaust was the result of Jewish sins? Are reports about this just misunderstandings, misinterpretations? Should the Jewish community accept the fact that he is floating the century old traditions of hate-speech among the credulous masses?
How about this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uViQ0hVV57Q
What is Christian about this?
The only thing I can see is the the fact that the larger apocalyptic scenario is deeply rooted in human imagination. Dystopia - good and evil. And conspiracy fiction has always been good business.
Maybe I meet one to many, many confused people on the web whose ideas can be traced back to these sources. Doesn't sound neither Jewish nor Christian to me.
Anyone who would open a hand to the crazed preacher who is John Hagee is in contempt of the teachings of God! You must really need blood money to take Hagee's friendship and money. I am disgusted by your actions which reflect very poorly on you personally and on the Jewish State! Christians United for Israel is preposterous, absurd and totally without any human dignity. Evangelicals as a religion are no religion at all and have no biblical basis whatsover. Align yourselves with these fools and you will also become a fool and bring shame to the word of God. The "New" testament is a lie and anyone who believes otherwise will find themselves on the wrong side when the Messiah comes. If you have taken money from the evangelicals you must return it now and in the future turn them away or you bring shame on yourselves and Israel.
Best regards,
John B. Copeland
I agree with your comments. Jews must be very careful about endorsing someone of Hagee's kind.
I just wondered if out Jewish brothers and sisters embrace Jesus Christ as the saviour of the world and as such the only begotten Son of God?
I just can't share Eric Yoffie's analysis or prescription here. His cool distance from John Hagee ignores the harsh realities that all Liberal reformists choose to ignore: the post-911 world is indeed divisive, hostile, and divides the world into a lamentable two-camp scenario that is reminiscent of the old US-Soviet struggle......Except the peaceful co-existence part. Most of the West is indifferent to Israel as best, and without question indifferent to the decidely greater post-911 Islamic and Arab anti-Israelism and -- yes-- Anti-Semitism.
Yoffe does not have the luxury (nor the authority) to reject John Hagee et al as a loyal suitor, particularly as Israel can't get a date elsewhere.
Bless Hagee....
I just can't share Eric Yoffie's analysis or prescription here. His cool distance from John Hagee ignores the harsh realities that all Liberal reformists choose to ignore: the post-911 world is indeed divisive, hostile, and splits the world into a lamentable two-camp scenario that is reminiscent of the old US-Soviet struggle...
Except the peaceful co-existence part. Most of the West is indifferent to Israel at best, and without question indifferent to the decidedly greater post-911 Islamic and Arab anti-Israelism and -- yes-- Anti-Semitism. Yoffie does not have the luxury (nor the authority as my religious leader) to reject John Hagee et al as a loyal political suitor for the one country I love as much as Canada and the US, particularly as Israel can't get a date elsewhere. Bless Hagee....
I just can't share Eric Yoffie's analysis or prescription here. His cool distance from John Hagee ignores the harsh realities that all Liberal reformists choose to ignore: the post-911 world is indeed divisive, hostile, and splits us into a lamentable two-camp scenario that is reminiscent of the old US-Soviet struggle...Except the peaceful co-existence part. Most of the West is indifferent to Israel as best, and without question indifferent to the decidedly greater post-911 Islamic and Arab anti-Israelism and -- yes-- Anti-Semitism. Yoffie does not have the luxury, nor the delgated authority as my religious leader, to politically reject John Hagee et al as a loyal suitor, particularly as Israel can't get a date elsewhere. Bless Hagee....
I wonder how you feel about the jews in africa. They are being killed and persicuted also. There are some who say the problem with the country of isreal is that they are transplant jews. I have heard that the jews in africa are the original and they are being put to the side by the other jewish race, because of color. Could someone please explain this to me and help me out? I feel this is a very valid issue and would hope to get some answers.
I have always admired Israel's take no prisoners attitude about dealing with the battles it fights with hostile neighbors.I believe if the West would get out of their way the problem would have been take care of long ago. That being said, getting in bed with a right wing christian zealot will not serve their intrest long term. Gods word and Bible profecy may give you some protection but Hagee only cares about you as relates to the end on time. Do not loose touch with reality and let your guard down.Internal demographics is your greatest threat.The US is heading into a more libral mind set and and people like Hagee will only help weaken your influence.
Rabbi Yoffie is worried about Israel's becoming a marginal part of the 'Jewish consciousness' of future leaders of the American Jewish community - and rightly so. The basic reason, however, is not political - rather educational. Indeed, Israel is 'the most precious possession of the Jewish people', as stated so dramatically at the article's end. What is so precious about Israel; why is she so special? She represents a Jewishness as a primary identity. It's a Jewishness shaped not by its unique majority status - but by the revival of Hebrew and by the cultural creativity in our historic language. Israel has so much to offer the Diaspora. Sadly, American Jewry has never understood the importance of Hebrew studies, nor has it ever understood the clear connection between language and identity. By being speakers of only American English, even committed Jews will find themselves involved in the trends of other speakers of American English. The culture potential of Israel in the shaping of Jewish continuity is simply lost on people for whom Judaism is always in translation.