Forward.com

BRILLIANT title for this space, "Comics Rescued From..." EV is a genius!

Eli, you sick, brilliant bastard! Great job!! P.S.: Bob Crumb is looking for his "special" cross-hatching Rapidograph.

What a disgusting display of ignorance and conspiracy-minded hatred. The historical irony was surely unintended - a discovered text revealing the true motives of the evangelicals? Gross caricature to promote misunderstanding and animosity towards a subgroup of the population? Hmmmm ... why didn't you title it "The Protocols of the Elders of Saddleback"? Or maybe "The Eternal Evangelical"?

All these years I’ve been misreading the transliteration of your paper as “Forverts.” My mistake; it seems to have been “Sturmer.” What a disgrace.

So who said that leftist Jews cannot be bigoted hate mongers? Shame on the Forward for soiling all the Jewish people with this vicious rot!

"So who said that leftist Jews cannot be bigoted hate mongers? " Yes, well, it's all right for evangelicals to believe we'll all burn in hell - as long as they aren't bigots!

This intolerant and dehumanizing cartoon diminishes The Forward. I regret a decision was made to publish it.

I agree with the article at American Thinker: this is truly revolting. No doubt there are American Christians who support Israel with lip service alone. But there are quite literally millions who visit Israel each year, inject large sums of money into the Israeli economy, are respectful of Israeli history and culture (and Israeli laws against proselytization), and, in general, do not deserve to be depicted in this way. I have met them and spent time with them; they are deserving of respect. If you have specific criticisms against specific people, by all means, let's hear them. But shame on you for slandering millions of Americans who, although not Jewish, truly do love Israel. Daniel Schwartz Brookline, MA

The link I tried to post just now was this: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/11/a_challenge_to_the_liberal_jew.html DJS

Let me see Danish Cartoonist publishes Mohammand and receives death threats, Christians are depicted as evil by a Eli Valley receive any death threats??? America has laid it on the line for Israel and the Jewish people keep in mind 80% of Americas are Christians why would you ever print this crap

My daughter is an academic in the UK and has developed a nasty distaste for the Jewish people. I live in the US and constantly debate her, defending the very same. I am not a Christian. They think of me as a Pagan, but have a great respect for my neighbors and friends who are Christian due to the way they treat other people. I certainly hope (and seriously doubt) that most Jewish people think this way about Christians. But due to this horrible cartoon, I may need to listen more to my daughter's views about you.

I'm an American Catholic and have dreamed for a long time of visiting Israel. No-- I'm not old, fat and pasty either. Not only am I not evangelical- I'm barely Catholic. I'm not holding out for the end times, hoarding anything and proseletyzing. See-- i can't even spell it. This makes my stomach churn and reminds me painfuly of nazi filth propaganda portraying jews as subhuman. Valley has a right to do whatever he wants to do and I'm sure there's a context but forward.com isn't it. I give regularly to many grassroots charities in Israel as well as the larger ones-- including ARMDI. I am now rethinking my ARMDI gifts as I see they have an ad on this page.

This is a disgusting display of bigotry and ignorance, and both Eli Valley and the Forward should be ashamed of themselves. In our community, the evangelical support for Israel and the Jewish people is unselfish and without any alterior motives. I would encourage any and all (especially Eli Valley) to read David Brog's "Standing for Israel" if they are interested in learning about the real reasons evangelical Christians support Israel; you might learn something. If a Christian publication published this cartoon with the roles reversed, would the Forward have published it, or forwarded it to the Anti-Defamation League? SL, please do not judge all Jewish people by this display of intolerance.

After 9/11/01, I tried to learn, in detail, the formation of the State of Israel. I have come to support Israel because she is a democracy in the middle of a pig sty. Why don't you mock the Muslims that call for the obliteration of Israel every day. Try mocking the Jesse Jacksons and Farrakhans who simply hate Jews. So what if Christians do not believe as you do. We are not bombing your country or killing Jews in the USA or anybody else for that matter. Valley, please kiss my Polish/French/Irish ***. Grow up and show some class. You are definitely a hate monger.

After 9/11/01, I tried to learn, in detail, the formation of the State of Israel. I have come to support Israel because she is a democracy in the middle of a pig sty. Why don't you mock the Muslims that call for the obliteration of Israel every day. Try mocking the Jesse Jacksons and Farrakhans who simply hate Jews. So what if Christians do not believe as you do. We are not bombing your country or killing Jews in the USA or anybody else for that matter. Valley, please kiss my Polish/French/Irish ***. Grow up and show some class. You are definitely a hate monger.

"I agree with the article at American Thinker: this is truly revolting." The article at American Thinker was truly retarded. It stated that liberal Jewish leaders who supported Obama "broke bread" with the president of Iran. Just a little tip -- the liberal Jews who supported Obama were, in fact, not the same haredi radicals from the anti-Zionist group, Neturei Karte. Now, I know we all look the same, but for crying out loud...we do dress a bit different.

Such is the purview of artistic license, of course, but how much more meaningful and relevant the strip would have been if Mr. Valley had parodied only sad realities rather than including bad fantasies. Some of the sad realities Valley satirized are indeed that – very real and very sad. To wit, some “evangelicals” really are unkind to unbelievers – including Jews – and have been for centuries, all the way back to Martin Luther [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_and_antisemitism]. Likewise, some “evangelicals” really are unkempt in their obesity, including perhaps the most familiar “evangelical” to Jews, John Hagee [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee] (many Christians would argue [http://www.anevangelicalmanifesto.com/docs/Evangelical_Manifesto.pdf] that Hagee is not even an evangelical, and Mel Gibson – another target of anti-evangelical Jews, and understandably so [http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/757365.html] – most certainly is not an evangelical [http://vintage.aomin.org/Evangelicals_and_Catholics_Together.html], but that is an academic debate unrelated to this discussion). Mr. Valley, then, finds himself as a Jewish pot calling Christian kettles “black” since his parody was anything but kind (satire can be very effective, accurate and humorous without being vindictive, exaggerated and bitter). And as far as obesity goes, some of Israel's greatest heroes (including recently) were likewise. What Mr. Valley could have offered instead was a parody of evangelicals satirizing only what they really are (such as America's most consistent supporters of national Israel) rather than what they usually are not (such as apocalyptic myopes). Yes, the “evangelicals” who make headlines in the anti-evangelical Jewish media (such as Mr. Valley's “Jewcy”) with their confrontational and inconsiderate style of evangelism provide plenty of fodder for what Valley offered. But what he could have offered instead was a careful and clever satire of evangelicals who don't embarrass the rest of Christianity with their insensitivities and inconsistencies. I hope Mr. Valley will consider writing such a strip in the future.

Such is the purview of artistic license, of course, but how much more meaningful and relevant the strip would have been if Mr. Valley had parodied only sad realities rather than including bad fantasies. Some of the sad realities Valley satirized are indeed that – very real and very sad. To wit, some “evangelicals” really are unkind to unbelievers – including Jews – and have been for centuries, all the way back to Martin Luther [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_and_antisemitism]. Likewise, some “evangelicals” really are unkempt in their obesity, including perhaps the most familiar “evangelical” to Jews, John Hagee [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee] (many Christians would argue [http://www.anevangelicalmanifesto.com/docs/Evangelical_Manifesto.pdf] that Hagee is not even an evangelical, and Mel Gibson – another target of anti-evangelical Jews, and understandably so [http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/757365.html] – most certainly is not an evangelical [http://vintage.aomin.org/Evangelicals_and_Catholics_Together.html], but that is an academic debate unrelated to this discussion). Mr. Valley, then, finds himself as a Jewish pot calling Christian kettles “black” since his parody was anything but kind (satire can be very effective, accurate and humorous without being vindictive, exaggerated and bitter). And as far as obesity goes, some of Israel's greatest heroes (including recently) were likewise. What Mr. Valley could have offered instead was a parody of evangelicals satirizing only what they really are (such as America's most consistent supporters of national Israel) rather than what they usually are not (such as apocalyptic myopes). Yes, the “evangelicals” who make headlines in the anti-evangelical Jewish media (such as Mr. Valley's “Jewcy”) with their confrontational and inconsiderate style of evangelism provide plenty of fodder for what Valley offered. But what he could have offered instead was a careful and clever satire of evangelicals who don't embarrass the rest of Christianity with their insensitivities and inconsistencies. I hope Mr. Valley will consider writing such a strip in the future.

Having taken a good hard look at cartoons from Der Stürmer on exhibit at Yad Vashem, I want to register my sadness and disgust at The Forward's publication of equally odious caricatures in "Evangelical Zionist Tours of Israel." The worst sort of stereotyping is on display here, and in a Jewish daily, no less. The climate of world opinion is filled with poisonous lies, and you have to participate in a bit of your own Two-Minutes Hate? Shame on you.

As a proud Jew, I am disgusted and revolted by the display of hatred and bigotry in this "comic". The Forward should be ashamed for printing such hateful trash. You've lost this reader forever.

What is this drek? Mr. Valley's cartoon is neither humor nor artistic license. The Forward should be ashamed of printing this affront to Israel's biggest supporters. As a Jew, I am ashamed by this display of bigotry and intolerance. http://VocalMinority.typepad.com The Jewish Republican's Web Sanctuary

The comments here make me want to re-think my subscription to Der Stürmer.

How sad that this is posted. Just more fuel to the flames already being fanned by the polarization between Jews and evangelical Christians. This is a disgrace to all Jewish people and I am an American Jew. I also DID NOT for your chosen candidate, Barak Hussein Obama. The Jews that voted for him will come to regret their choice. Anyone who pals around with with the Rev. Wright and other of like ilk are NO friends to any Jew.Enjoy the "change" this charlatan and lair will usher in and you thought the Bush years were bad, just wait! I am sure "comrade" Obama would approve of the Forward's actions in regard to this filth you lower yourselves to.

As a Christian, I support Jews here and in Israel because there are many evil people in the world who will murder every last one of you if they get the chance and still more who will stand by and let it happen! As an American, I respect everyone's right to decide who God is for themselves and to worship as they see fit. I never would have imagined that the anti-Christian, anti-American, point of view expressed by this cartoon is as mainstream in Israel as it apparently is. The editors must have felt that its readers would approve. I had two relatives wounded and one killed in WWII beating Nazis back across Europe to keep more Jews from being stuffed into ovens. They were very proud to have taken that stand. They were Christians too. Today, my first fear of Iran developing nukes has to do with the safety of the people of Israel. Israel is already within missle range and I don't think Iran will hesitate to push the button the second the first nuke becomes operational. The bottom line is Eli Valley has stepped over many enemies to piss on a friend.

As a Christian, I support Jews here and in Israel because there are many evil people in the world who will murder every last one of you if they get the chance and still more who will stand by and let it happen! As an American, I respect everyone's right to decide who God is for themselves and to worship as they see fit. I never would have imagined that the anti-Christian, anti-American, point of view expressed by this cartoon is as mainstream in Israel as it apparently is. The editors must have felt that its readers would approve. I had two relatives wounded and one killed in WWII beating Nazis back across Europe to keep more Jews from being stuffed into ovens. They were very proud to have taken that stand. They were Christians too. Today, my first fear of Iran developing nukes has to do with the safety of the people of Israel. Israel is already within missle range and I don't think Iran will hesitate to push the button the second the first nuke becomes operational. The bottom line is Eli Valley has stepped over many enemies to piss on a friend.

"Yes, the “evangelicals” who make headlines in the anti-evangelical Jewish media (such as Mr. Valley's “Jewcy”) with their confrontational and inconsiderate style of evangelism provide plenty of fodder for what Valley offered. But what he could have offered instead was a careful and clever satire of evangelicals who don't embarrass the rest of Christianity with their insensitivities and inconsistencies." Salvific exclusivism is the bedrock of evangelical theology. Whether or not they are of the "Rapture" variety, most evangelicals believe that millions of Jews, not to mention billions of "unsaved" gentiles, will suffer in hell for all of eternity for "rejecting" Jesus. This belief is far more obscene than anything that can be expressed in a cartoon. Cooperation with evangelicals may be a necessity for Israel - but I'm sick to death of politically and theologically conservative Jews convincing themselves that it isn't a painful one.

I am truly revolted by this attempt at demonizing Christians. Our Jewish friends should be the last to undertake the tactics that were so unfairly used against them. As a Christian, I've always loved, admired and supported Israel and the Jewish people. I don't know a Christian that doesn't. There has historically been a vocal, highly visible body of "Christians" that have hated and persecuted Jews, but they weren't following the teachings of Jesus (the Jew) and were Christians in name only (products of the corrupt church/state marriage in Europe, not of loving Christ and His teachings). Martin Luther was correct in stating that salvation is not of works, but of faith, but he will be forever infamous for his hatred of the Jewish People. Those of us who love the Jewish people are constantly being lumped in with the worst "Christian" examples possible. By the way, we Christians despise Hitler and his genocidal practices as much as the Jews do, if possible. He was a neo-pagan occultist- not a Christian. The New Testament says that "...all Israel shall be saved..." and of the Jews: "They are beloved..." (Romans 11:26,28)

Jeff - If you are offended by evangelicals' belief that if you don't accept Jesus, you're going to hell, then that's your prerogative. I'm not offended, because I know that different religions have different beliefs. *They* might think I'm going to hell, but I don't care what they say because I don't subscribe to that belief. Where it becomes a problem is when their belief starts impinging on my *life*. And that's where the radical Islamists come in. Here's a religious group that is actively seeking our death because we are not Muslims. Yet much of the Christian-hating left has been doing everything in their power to protect these animals. Sorry, there's no comparison between an evangelical Christian and a fundamentalist Muslim. Only one of these is wreaking mortal havoc on the Jewish people. http://VocalMinority.typepad.com The Jewish Republican's Web Sanctuary

The comments from Christians here reveal that very sickness that Eli Valley was critiquing... "You should be grateful we tolerate you in our Christian country".... "You Jews have lots of enemies, do as we say or else".... Just like many of these "Christian friends of Israel", these Christians don't actually like Jews or the Jewish people: what they like is a false characature, an archetype, a fake persona from their Bible who fits easily into their fantasies of armageddon. The instant an actual Jew pops up who doesn't kiss their ass, but admits to being offended by their patronization and cartoon-depth understanding of life as a Jew - who says "We don't want to be pawns in your sick eschatalogical genocidal dreams" - who stands up *as a Jew* and says "I'm not your patsy, and I'm not some character in your Bible to play your games." - how quickly the philo-Semites reveal their anti-Semitism. Because in the end, irrational "love" of Jews and irrational hatred of Jews come from the same sick source.

A revealing display of the bigotry, hypocrisy, and hatred among the Jewish Left. "Jews" by name only, Liberal Jews have turned their backs not on Jesus, but on the Holiness, Humility, and Teachings of the Torah itself. You should be ashamed, but the Godless have no conscience.

"*They* might think I'm going to hell, but I don't care what they say because I don't subscribe to that belief." That isn't the point. THEY believe it, and it SHOULD offend you. We need them, and we have to work with them? Fine - but don't tell me their beliefs don't matter.

"the Godless have no conscience" Right - because we couldn't possibly have a legitimate opinion that differs from yours. Stereotype much?

Gross - the pictures of the Christian Zionists are so gross and mask-like as to be kind of dehumanizing.

Jeff - OK, I'll say it again - Their beliefs don't matter. It's their *actions* that count. Are you offended by the radical Muslims we are currently at war with? The one's who have declared jihad on non-believers and call Jews descendents of pigs and apes? It wouldn't bother me what they thought either - until they took up arms. That's when all bets were off. http://VocalMinority.typepad.com The Jewish Republican's Web Sanctuary

"Are you offended by the radical Muslims we are currently at war with?" It would be more accurate to say that I'm outraged by their actions. I do, of course, find their theology offensive, but I'm not as offended personally by it, for two reasons: 1. It hasn't been Islamic fundamentalists who've been threatening me with eternal damnation since I was a child; 2. Islamic fundamentalists aren't currently attempting to commandeer our political system, legislate away the civil rights of everyone who disagrees with them and cripple our educational system even more than it already is by imposing the teaching of creationism in our public schools. In other words - it's the Christian fundies who have been in my face for more than half a century, not their Islamic counterparts. Their beliefs do matter. Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't work with them, if forced to, but if you think their beliefs are irrelevant, we have nothing to talk about. Our world views are too disparate for meaningful communication. When I was growing up, there was almost no such thing as a Jewish Republican. If your kid comes home from school, traumatized, and tells you that he wants to become a Christian so that he won't burn in hell, because he's been told as much by a missionary program that has the state's permission to proselytize in the schools (which is actually going on, and I'm not talking about individual teachers who occasionally cross the line) - you'll remember this exchange. But I don't know why I'm even mentioning it; you'll simply say it isn't happening, and, even if it is - so what?

As a Jew, I'm deeply ashamed of this cartoon. On my numerous visits to Israel, I had the pleasure of meeting many Christians, Evangelical and otherwise, who truly loved Israel for its modern qualities, were curious about Judaism and Jewish life, and bore no End-of-Days fantasies. These people are on the front lines when it comes to defending Israel's interests here in the U.S., which is more than I can say for many "liberal" Jews. I hope that the Christian readers who were rightly offended by this cartoon know that most Jews are not so hateful and bigoted - please visit and enjoy Israel as much as you can!

This is really amazing. It's sick but in that way that makes you uncomfortable because it's true. I grew up around Evangelical Christians and had my best friends try to "save" me when I was a small child. So many of these things were actually taught, directly or indirectly, to my friends in their churches or at home. I am tired of being a tool for Evangelicals' vision of endtimes. That's all Jews and Israel are... tools and stepping stones for them. I am appalled at how many Jews think they are really on "our side".

T, Thank you for saying this. I am so utterly sick of Jews not getting it.

First let me state clearly. For years I have offered blind support for Isrial. Over the last five years I have grown very concerned that the gov of Isrial dosn't support the true meaning of peace at all. How is it possilbe that Isrial can use WMD"S and America not oppose such actions? How is it possible that Jewish scolars oppose the cause of Christ yet expect Christian Churchs to support Isrial? Two years ago our Church youth group toured Isrial and we were told before we arrived that we could not share the Christian faith at all. Last summer I read reports that Jews were burning the New Testiment and yet Christians said very little. A few weeks ago the ADL began to push Hate Crime laws which restricts free speech and yet it orginates from the ADL whom as America we are suppose to support? A few months ago I ended my blind support of Isrial and have asked Christians in 20 Churchs to reconsider there blind support of Isrial based on facts and information. We have urged our gov to end it's aid to Isrial and to your enemies asking you to live in peace. Then there is this little comic releif of Christians when all along we have supported you folks and rarely asked you to be accountable. Christ expects Isrial to live in peace before you will ever reclaim your divine rights. It should be noted the false Christ will rise and the duplict nature of Christians and Jews will hail him as the one but only a small few will reject such false actions. Our Church and now 12 others have ended our blind support to Isrial and instead of working with interfaith groups we now donate only to Childrens homes.

Sometimes they just write the material for you...

I've never heard anyone claim that God wanted Hitler or anyone else to kill anyone. While I don't agree with the Hagee type end times information (I'm a Christian who believes the Jew Jesus is the Christ) being spread around the world by his type of thinking, I find it an irony that you would carry such anti-Christian "comic".... Christians appear to the be best friends of Israel (a strange way to treat friends).

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

<p>I have been away from the Comments on this blog for several days (having read them only once on my previous and only visit). I am surprised at some of the comments which followed, and cited, my own from last weekend. For example, while I have no idea what "drek" is, I assume EricTheRed was equating my comments there with. Judging from his cited blog page, Mr. TheRed and I likely share a fair degree of perceptual convergence. I guess I will just have to come to grips with the notion that my thoughts – at least whenever they disagree with his – are mere “drek.” </p> <p>They were the comments of Jeff Eyges, however, which really raised my eyebrow (though I suspect he would have preferred to raise my ire). After quoting me, Mr. Eyges told us that "Salvific exclusivism is the bedrock of evangelical theology. Whether or not they are of the 'Rapture' variety, most evangelicals believe that millions of Jews, not to mention billions of 'unsaved' gentiles, will suffer in hell for all of eternity for 'rejecting' Jesus. This belief is far more obscene than anything that can be expressed in a cartoon." One can only wonder why Mr. Eyges, a Jew, is unaware that the “bedrock” of his own theology (at least that of historic, Torahic Judaism) is exactly the same thing. </p> <p>Regarding Mr. Eyges' assertion, though, that “millions of Jews, not to mention billions of 'unsaved' gentiles, will suffer in hell for all of eternity for 'rejecting' Jesus,” he does not appear to be as uninformed. The devil, though (pardon the pun), is in the details. While it is ultimately true (well, that cannot be proved yet, but one can prove that it is at least biblically true) that Jews (and everyone else) who reject their Messiah will “suffer in hell for all of eternity,” it is more accurate to say that Jews – including Mr. Eyges (and everyone else, including myself) – have done exactly what YaHWeH told us we could not do -- over and over and over and over and over again (cf. the Levitical reference cited above). </p> <p>According, then, to the God of both Jews (at least historic, Torahic Jews) and Christians, the actual cause of eternal damnation is NOT "rejecting" Yeshua Ha'Meshiach but violation of YaHWeH's holy Torah reject their Messiah is little more than icing on a cake made of an entire lifetime of rejecting YaHWeH, not Yeshua. Yeshua Ha'Meshiach was (and is) YaHWeH's ultimate expression of unimaginably gracious and forgiving love for sinners. YaHWeH sent His promised Messiah to be offered as the only perfect sacrifice for the pervasive and perpetual sins of His chosen people – both both Jews and Gentiles – so He could receive into eternal heaven those of us who DO believe rather than be forced by His infinite justice to give us what we all deserve instead, infinite punishment for sins against an infinitely holy and righteous Creator. </p> <p>Finally, for Mr. Eyges to call belief in these explicitly Jewish doctrines “more obscene than anything that can be expressed in a cartoon” is curious, to say the least. Perhaps he has never asked himself how “obscene” his own sin is to the God who went so far as to punish His own Son for Mr. Eyges' sins. When I finally asked myself that question, and was willing to seek the answer where YaHWeH had offered it, I realized the true obscenity was not that which offended me but that which offended Him.</p>

Lund, don't presume to preach to me or to anyone else here. I am far more familiar with your theology than you would assume - and it is junk theology. I stand by what I said. And your statement, "One can only wonder why Mr. Eyges, a Jew, is unaware that the “bedrock” of his own theology (at least that of historic, Torahic Judaism) is exactly the same thing." is completely unfounded. You are, obviously, ignorant of the basics of Rabbinic Judaism, which eschews salvific exclusivism. Go peddle it elsewhere.

Mr. Eyges, Your anger at my "ignoran[ce] of the basics of Rabbinic Judaism" is interesting considering the fact that I did not claim to have specific knowledge thereof. Should you wish to re-read my comments, you will see that I claimed knowledge, instead, of "Torahic Judaism." If you would like to explore the differences between the two, I suggest you consider asking the director(s) of this Web site about their reasons for doing what I will report in the next paragraph. While I do not choose to join you in your anger at my "ignorance," I can at least understand some of it in this case since my comments in my last post did not include any Torahic citations. How absurd, indeed, for a mere Goy to claim salvific inclusivism in the Torah without offering any evidence of it! Ah, but therein lies the problem, only it was not I who refused to provide the evidence behind my words -- it was the Webmaster @ Forward.com (or his director[s]) who robbed you of that evidence. You see, Mr. Eyges, I included the requisite Torahic citations confirming my Torahic assertions with the text of my comments (as I did with my original post; to which citations, for some reason, your replies have not responded) but those Torahic citations were censored from the text of my post prior to their being published. Pity, that. Those of us who prefer a scholarly approach to the examination of issues have little respect -- and less time -- for forums where evidentially referenced commentaries are stripped of their evidence. Should the director(s) of this forum decide to re-post my comments with the evidence I originally provided, I would be more than willing to continue with this discussion. If the director(s) of this forum will not re-post my comments in toto, the readers -- including yourself, Mr. Eyges -- will be denied the evidence to which they are entitled. Since I choose not participate in that type of censorship, whether it is of your comments or my own, you can have whatever last words you wish to post on this topic and I will offer no further challenges to them since my comments will only be stripped of their evidential foundation. Should the director(s) of Forward.com instead wish to re-post the evidence I provided with my comments, I look forward to the open, and scholarly, exchange of not just mere opinions, but the evidence which justifies them. Likewise, should Forward.com wish to discuss their decision to censor the evidence I provided with my previous comments, they know how to reach me.

sad prejudice without knowing the facts and discerning the difference between christian by name and christian in heart

Lund, you are an excellent example of the arrogance and condescension inherent in Christian fundamentalism. Your presumption in coming here and attempting to preach to the poor, benighted Jews who, in your opinion, just don't "get it", is insufferable. As I said, I am far more familiar with your theology than you obviously assume; I need no further "evidence". I simply disagree with you - an impossibility, in your belief system. As far as "Torahic" Judaism (there is no such term; I assume you are attempting to refer to the injunctions of the Old Testament) is concerned, you are wrong again. Conservative Christians are always trying to find references to salvific exclusivism and eternal damnation in the OT; in order to do so, you have to rely upon biased translations and passages taken out of context. Moreover, the sacrificial system upon which Christians base their defense of the concept of substitutionary atonement has been grossly misunderstood. It represents the absolute height of hubris for you people to have spent the past two millennia telling us that we've misunderstood and misinterpreted a set of books that we wrote in the first place - with or without divine inspiration. If you want to know how to interpret the OT, try asking a rabbi instead of your Christian apologists. The editors at Forward are absolutely justified in declining to include your Biblical references. This is not a forum for proselytism, and your attempts to do so serve only to prove my points about the Evangelical mindset. Your colossal arrogance in inviting the editors to "discuss their decision to censor the evidence I provided" reinforces this; you simply aren't that important. Everything about your behavior here argues my point and refutes yours. Don't worry, Larry. If we're right, you get to go to heaven. If you're correct, we'll all go to hell. Either outcome will, no doubt, afford you a tremendous amount of pleasure.

Great stuff! Hits the nail right on the head!

"and cripple our educational system even more than it already is by imposing the teaching of creationism in our public schools."

Why would anyone in Israel be offended by a group of people forcing the most influencial country in the world to teach in schools the way the world was created according to the Tanakh ? Christians made the Hebrew scriptures the most printed book in history (30 times more copies than any other book older than 100 years). They don't manipulate any of it the exact same Tanakh Jewish rabbis follow was spread around the world by Christians and called the word of God. They can read the prophecies themselves and decide about Jesus.