Forward.com

B"H

The New Gangster By Rabbi Getzy Markowitz

The era of the mob has come to a close. Once the fixtures of the back alley and in-your-face sudden attacks, the Capones and Gotiis have been relegated to movie screenings. The mafia still exists, but like bad Hollywood take-offs, they are generally try-hard copycats.

However, many would argue that a new brand of mobsters have become legitimate criminals. Drive-by shootings are replaced by character assassinations in the drive-by media. A refusal of their demands will welcome impossible ones. Their wars have become deadlier and dirtier. Although wrong and offensive, they are backed by legal authority.

A nation once united by a union force is now hostage to a fierce union movement that is more of a confederacy. The land of the free has been placed in shackles with the exception of the few resistant brave. These labor unions will twist their victims' arms until they cry mercy, and finally yield. Claiming to protect workers' rights, the union offends the freedoms granted them in the Bill of Rights. It is their way or the highway, and they are eager to take the low road to suit their interests.

Consider 16 year old Danielle Cookson, an Albertson's clerk. She refused to become a member of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union, even after they had made it clear that joining was compulsory. The alternative was losing her job. Danielle is no activist; she simply did not want to pay the $80 initiation fee, plus a monthly membership of $30 to an organization she didn't want to be part of. How could her rights be protected by people who would harm her for having rights to begin with?

While we worry about terrorist sleeper cells, there are some active groups that should have triggered a wake-up call long ago. I don't hesitate to compare some unions to terrorists. They hate our freedom and our very way of life; submit to their fundamentals or be damned.

Since May, one of this country's largest leftist unions has been bullying victims right in America's heartland at the Agriprocessors meat packing plant in Postville, Iowa. Through fabrications, distortions, and exaggerations, the union has dealt a powerful blow to our nation's righteous might. Their tactics are cowardly, while their opponents are admirably courageous. Agri's only crime has been refusing to unionize, and choosing to be governed solely by the democratic political body we the people have elected.

The union's unbending determination has them bending the rules. The employees they sought to defend have been incarcerated for refusing their protection. The employers who provided the best for their human resources have been disparaged for allegedly doing the extreme opposite. To be sure, I am not accusing the unions of these despicable actions, I only need highlight their own statement: "It's no longer sufficient to use a strike or other work disturbance to pressure a company to do the right thing. Increasingly, it's necessary to pressure a company by causing a crisis of confidence among its customers, shareholders, directors or other constituents."

Even as the bulk of the ridiculous allegations has been controverted, the media have been sparing in rebuttals or clarifications. But as the mighty union fails to bring down an upright giant, selfishly the union won't surrender and has moved on to new tactics. A Minnesota plant under their sway is now offering Agri workers better pay, being as they are "mistreated" and "underpaid."

I wonder why personnel would stay in a job whose package includes personal abuse and mistreatment? There is obviously a gap that could be filled by the competition. As wages are competitive, why would workers stay at an indecent Agriprocessors? If workers are so eager to leave the company, then why do they need to be bribed with a pay raise to do so?

The truth, as documented in independent video interviews by organizations such as the Five Towns Jewish Times, is that staff at Agriprocessors say that they are happy with their working environment and treatment. One employee said that she was treated better and paid more than in her previous job at Tyson chicken. If the workers have complaints, Agriprocessors has encouraged them to make suggestions. By their own testimony, workers' concerns are properly addressed.

The liberty granted these unions is appalling, even as they threaten the everyday American's own. Their opposers are treated as dissidents and will have their human rights threatened. While we need to stand up against these subjugators, identifying their hand when we see it is a good start.

Rabbi Getzy Markowitz is the director of the Solomon Institute for Jewish Wisdom and is the author of the weekly Jewish Thought in Simple Words email series. Contact: getzym@gmail.com

Since when does the Reform movement care what the orthodox have to say? All of a sudden, the orthodox have the "great Torah scholars". All of a sudden you want to know what they think.

What if the orthodox rabbis suggested that every Jew keep kosher? With a higher demand, that would mean more kosher meat plants. More competition. A higher quality of product. Even the ridiculous hecksher tzedek could be given to plants that meet its standards. If that is what it will take for Jews to eat kosher, then, so be it. (even though the "hecksher" has nothing to do with kashrus.)

Did you ever consider that the Rubashkins were doing their employees a favor by employing them? That the illegal aliens liberals cry over were given jobs and wages. They probably were not given very large salaries and that is why they couldn't afford to live in fancy houses.

And what is it that you want Chabad to say? Would you berate your child in public?

I really don't understand why you are so concerned with Torah values. Do you encourage ALL Jews to follow the Torah or just those aspects that are comfortable to them?

There is a reason why kashrus is in the hands of the orthodox rabbis. Please G-d, let it always be that way.

So, the OU is fine with the Hechsher that they get paid for in the Chinese food market where the employees are paid far less than in America and live under much worse conditions. Only under pressure did they back off in Iowa ? If it was really that bad, don't you think the OU would have seen it and noticed a few years ago ?!?!!??

Yes, the Chabad Shluchim in small cities across America rely on Agri to provide their Kosher meat and poultry for their Shabbos and Yom Tov tables for their visiting colleger students on campus and in their outreach shuls, Twenty years ago, these items had to be air shipped.

So, how about starting a Hechsher Tzedek on sneakers, clothing from Walmart, and items produced in countries that abuse their employees. Our cars should be manufactured by workers who are not taken advantage of.....Surely the 20 USDA workers and the OU supervisors know that this is not the case in Agri.

Go Rabbi Yoffe!! Make your flock proud! Or maybe you’re actually misleading them…

Yes, once again the rabbi shows his bias and ignorance, and most importantly, his disregard for Jewish values.

Has he ever met the "rapacious businessmen" he's writing about? Does he have any first-hand knowledge of any of their activities or practices? Or is he believing the libel he's being fed just as he expects his readers to do? Is it not against Jewish law to believe slander?

Now maybe he’s right and change is needed even before the judicial system has run its course. But even so, he writes like a hatemonger. We are to belive that he has the Jewish world’s best interest at heart, but shows his bile with his childish inability to refrain from name-calling and promulgating Lashon Hara.

This is all a very glaring symptom of the mistake we’ve made for thousands of years now; namely, shaping our ethics and behavior more by “what will the goyim think?” than by “what will God think?”

And one more thought: If the Rubashkins are exonerated in court, will our good rabbi publish an equally lengthy and passionate apology to their family? I think his track record demonstrates the answer to that…

Shame on Rabbi Yoffe and shame on the Jewish community for forfeiting it's own ethical system for a far lesser one!!

Perhaps our collective Rosh Hashana resolution could be something along the lines of V'Ahavta L'reiacha Kamocha - even when rebuke is necessary.

Shana Tova.

Eric Yoffie why do you need all the great leaders of our time to stand up and say something, we have you, we look at you as one of the greatest gdolie hador.

It's very tragic in that my fellow Orthodox Jews. posting here, embody the same lagger mentality, Rabbi Yoffie has courageously decried. Well as an Open Orthodox Jew, I have long banned Rubashkin from my house and most of my friends in Bait Knesset have done the same.

1. The Conservative movement injects itself in a foreign arena - They don’t keep the same “kosher”. They do deserve praise for their slippery glide into the fray, attaching feel-good “social justice” to an unrelated, distinct commandment.

The Torah doesn’t “justify” its detailed, slaughter methodology by explaining it as “humane”. We may choose to apply our logic to the process. But regardless of our logic the rules of Sh’chita stand.

Separate are the laws of careful and sensitive treatment to any living creature.

Conservative movement wishes to strip away the “blind faith” aspect adherence to torah commandments, and staple “kosher” laws to “humane” (that which we humans decide is appropriate). And then it’s a short skip and hop to all other torah laws. That which “we the board” decide is appropriate behavior, is.

2. An even more unTorah-like hop away is something both the OU and the Conservatives have moved towards: The desire to judge and “certify” others ethical behavior; something reserved for the divine. They’d like to move the “hechsher” arena beyond the material ingredient plane (kashrus), to ethics and then perhaps the other 612 commandments.

3. What exacty is Hekhsher Tzedek anyway? No one disputes the need for ethical treatment of workers and immigrants (and all humans). But what does Hechsher Tzedek have to do with it? Is someone feeling left out of the hechsher bu$ine$$? What exactly will a Conservative/Reform entity certify as kosher? Not the food ingredients. So the hechsher is exclusively on the ethical aspects of a business? How employers treat employees? That then shouldn’t be restricted to the food industry. Will you/they aim to get all world Jewry to have their business practices inspected by you? And why stop in the business place? Why not inspect home practices too for ethical treatment of children and spouses? No one will argue against that people must be ethical everywhere to everyone, but what exactly are the standards, and more importantly - What is the enforceability and accountability plan? And this has nothing specifically to do with Agri or a food plant.

4. How dare you negatively judge and viciously label your fellow man (“rapacious”) without speaking to him? On what do you base and allow your sin? CNN?

5. The voice of the Orthodox rabbinate is doing what it should - Not judging because they can’t. And they wait for the (hopefully unbiased) judges of the court in which this case is, to judge. The great Torah sages (not sure who you mean) are probably following the rules of the torah regarding judging another. Alleged crimes and press releases in the US do not make a commandment for a torah-true person, let alone leader or sage. But they obviously do for Conservative, Reform and the OU (assuming the target is an orthodox, successful and/or competing business owner).

6. The fact that “it could be years before the judicial proceedings are concluded” allows you to make your own judgment?! That IS the point, not beside it. Is there a foregone conclusion that Agri is Evil so let’s just skip to that, and, hey, why are the sages and rabbis not following suit?

7. Would you not expect, hope and want others to “endlessly repeat the mantras of “due process” and “innocent until proven guilty” if you were charged with a crime you feel you did not commit?

8. Yes “the Jewish community faces a public crisis of major proportions” and you do what by trying to convict before a trial? Make it better?

9. “The scandal has raised basic questions about the ethical foundations of our religious tradition”: Actually the alleged crimes, and who has jumped to say what, where, have provided insight into the level of (in)justice some Jews (you, and company) are ready to mete in the public square, to their fellow Jew. In the name of upholding respect for Judaism, no less. Talk about “Jewish indifference to injustice in our midst”.

10. Jewish tradition has a great deal to say about proper treatment of the innocent-until-proven-guilty, fellow Jew, in public.

11. Let us imagine that in the early stages of the most recent scandal, the Torah authorities of the Orthodox world (and leaders of any faction which attempts to associate itself with Judaism) had emphatically proclaimed the obligation of Jews to not rush to judge, to not believe as fact something thrown out to media-fed, hype-hungry masses, to not fan flames possibly started by jealous or vengeful arsonists.

To this they could have added that until proven otherwise they assume that torah observant Jews would assuredly treat workers and animals with their due respect, and any allegations to the contrary would need to be confirmed by an unbiased real court of law before we’d accept that thrown out by spin artists as truths.

Had this happened, the purported scandal would have played out in a very different way, and the unease now felt throughout much of the Jewish community would have been mitigated considerably. All stand as one, under the laws of torah and the laws of the land.

12. “Ethics in the abstract are meaningless if they are not applied to the real ethical challenges that we face as Jews”. Like for example, maligning your fellow Jew in public? We treat animals with respect, but a businessman who does better business than I, who’s been accused but not convicted of a crime, I’ll treat him like…. Is your behavior not “violating both accepted ethical canons and common sense”?

13. My fervent hope is that a resolution of the crisis will come speedily, with those in authority affirming Torah’s message of hope for those of our brothers who stand accused of crimes which they feel they did not commit — that justice will have its day and until then we stand beside you, and that we obey God, mitigate injustice and assure human dignity for all.

Rabbi Yoffie ought to be ashamed of himself.

The RCA took a stance back in the beginning of June, publishing a statement which included the words, "We must show sensitivity to needless animal suffering, preventing it where possible, and minimizing it when unavoidable. This is particularly true when it comes to practicing humane methods of animal slaughter, a matter of great concern to rabbis in every generation."

Agudas Yisroel's statement, also from June, declared, "To be sure, a Jewish business operating in bad faith, violating the law of the land or mistreating its employees deserves tochacha, halachically appropriate criticism. Its actions violate the Torah and carry great potential for hilul Hashem, or desecration of God's name."

Scoring political points with lies - ethical? I think not.

Eric Yoffe talks about "social justice". Where in Jewish Law or American Law does "social justice" allow for one to be considered considered guilty upon accusations. Perhaps Eric Yoffe has standards that are befitting, the systems that claim "guilty until proven innocent". Where is tyhe Social Justice to believe in every accusation no matter whether they have been proven yet?

Yoffee writes. "I expect nothing from the owners of Agriprocessors, the Rubashkins. Rapacious businessmen are hardly unique to the Jewish world". Does he believe that there is something wrong with the Jewish world? I have heard some of those sentiments echoed throughout history by some of the worst enemies of the Jews. Perhaps he agrees with them.

Has he ever met the Rubashkins, that he sizes them up. Perhps if he would , he may find out that he woul stand in awe of the kindness and "Tikun Olam" that these people are involved in.

I find it odd, that one who is so concerned for Social Justice , doesn't practice what he preaches in his own writings.

Today's St. Louis Jewish Light has a a letter from Rabbi Yosef Wikler is editor of Kashrus Magazine published in Brooklyn entitled "Another view of Agriprocessors"

I'm glad he wrote it and I post it below. It clearly and distinctly shows what it means to be an ultra orthodox Jew and how they differ from Rabbi Yoiffe.

Supply and demand indeed. Authentic Jews should apply the same principles to the products of this plant.

"What has not been said about the Agriprocessors debate," by Rabbi Hyim Shafner (St. Louis Jewish Light, Sept. 3) is a very good piece, but I am afraid the author is guilty of just what he is fighting for two reasons.

First, the Torah addresses the need to help the poor of Israel, not those of other nations. Yes, we still have a strong moral responsibility to be fair to all people and even to contribute to the needy of the nations, but not exactly the same way and in the same degree as we are bound to care for the Jewish people.

Also, we have to be certain that we are not guilty of deeming the Rubashkins guilty before anything has been proven. Sure, there were young workers at Agri — but was it known? Sure, some workers got little money and overtime, but was a law being broken?

Payment of workers is based upon supply and demand. No-one is forced to take a job. Many people moved to the city just to get a job at Agriprocessors.

If a company breaks no laws, are we to preach the morality of paying $8 instead of $10 to a worker. Surely to treat all workers with kindliness qualifies as a kiddush Hashem (sanctification of the divine name), but not offering health benefits is not a chilul Hashem (profaning the divine name).

Rabbi Yosef Wikler

So, the OU is fine with the Hechsher that they get paid for in the Chinese food market where the employees are paid far less than in America and live under much worse conditions. Only under pressure did they back off in Iowa ? If it was really that bad, don't you think the OU would have seen it and noticed a few years ago ?!?!!??

Yes, the Chabad Shluchim in small cities across America rely on Agri to provide their Kosher meat and poultry for their Shabbos and Yom Tov tables for their visiting colleger students on campus and in their outreach shuls, Twenty years ago, these items had to be air shipped.

So, how about starting a Hechsher Tzedek on sneakers, clothing from Walmart, and items produced in countries that abuse their employees. Our cars should be manufactured by workers who are not taken advantage of.....Surely the 20 USDA workers and the OU supervisors know that this is not the case in Agri.

The disturbing reports of alleged appalling conditions for animals and workers at the Postville, Iowa slaughterhouse should be a wake-up call to the Jewish community and to consumers of Agriprocessors' meat products to the urgent need for a major reassessment of how the current production and consumption of meat and other animal products violate basic Jewish teachings and harm people, animals and the entire planet.

I strongly support efforts by many groups to improve conditions at the slaughterhouse. But, even if these conditions become far better, we believe that it is still urgent that Jews shift away from animal-based diets because they involve many inconsistencies with Jewish law and values:

* Producing and consuming meat and other animal products represent violations of basic Jewish mandates to preserve our health, treat animals with compassion, protect the environment, conserve natural resources, help hungry people and avoid a chillul Hashem (desecration of God’s Name).

* The raising of 60 billion animals worldwide for meat, eggs and milk is contributing to global warming, widening water shortages, rapid species extinction and many more environmental problems that threaten humanity and all of creation.

* We can reduce the current epidemic of diseases afflicting Jews and others through a switch toward plant-based diets.

* In view of the many current threats to humanity, it is scandalous that the world is not only trying to feed 6.7 billion people, but also over 50 billion farmed animals; that 70 percent of the grain produced in the United States and 40 percent produced worldwide are fed to animals raised for slaughter; that the standard American diet (SAD) requires up to 14 times as much water as a vegan diet.

* A 2006 UN FAO report indicated that animal-based agriculture emits more greenhouse gases (18 percent in CO2 equivalents) than all the world's cars and other means of transportation combined (13.5 percent), and that the number of farmed animals is projected to double in 50 years. Therefore, what we eat is more important than what we drive, and a shift to plant-based diets is essential if we are to effectively respond to global warming and other environmental threats..

* This is extremely important for Jews today because Israel is especially threatened by global warming. A report by the Israel Union for Environmental Defense in 2007 indicates that global warming could cause: (1) a rise in average temperature of 3 to 11 degrees Fahrenheit; (2) a significant increase in the Mediterranean Sea level, which would threaten the narrow coastal strip of land where 60% of Israel's population lives and where major infrastructure, such as ports and power plants, would be seriously damaged; and (3) a decrease in rainfall of 20-30%, which would disrupt agricultural production and worsen the chronic water scarcity problem in Israel and the region.

Further information about these issues can be found at our JVNA (Jewish Vegetarians of North America) web site JewishVeg.com. We will provide complimentary copies of our new, highly-acclaimed documentary A SACRED DUTY: APPLYING JEWISH VALUES TO HELP HEAL THE WORLD and related materials to rabbis and others who will contact us and indicate how they might use them to involve their congregations, schools or other groups on the issues. The entire documentary can be seen at ASacredDuty.com, and there is much background material about the film at that web site.

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It seems to me that some of our Jewish Leaders not all and corporate owners Have taken HASHEM OUT OF THE TORAH!!!!! I am outraged at what I hear and see, I can only imagine at this most holy time of year, how G_d feels!! I hope that the Jewish people will wake up and see what it means to turn back Israel, turn back to his Torah! There is a compassion for life that is lost. We have literally desensitized our selves as human beings. May Hashem have mercy on us who show repentance and change towards him this Rosh Hashanah May all those who show compassion for all animal life’s names be written in his book!

It seems to me that some of our Jewish Leaders not all and corporate owners Have taken HASHEM OUT OF THE TORAH!!!!! I am outraged at what I hear and see, I can only imagine at this most holy time of year, how G_d feels!! I hope that the Jewish people will wake up and see what it means to turn back Israel, turn back to his Torah! There is a compassion for life that is lost. We have literally desensitized our selves as human beings. May Hashem have mercy on us who show repentance and change towards him this Rosh Hashanah May all those who show compassion for all animal life’s names be written in his book!

It seems to me that some of our Jewish Leaders not all and corporate owners Have taken HASHEM OUT OF THE TORAH!!!!! I am outraged at what I hear and see, I can only imagine at this most holy time of year, how G_d feels!! I hope that the Jewish people will wake up and see what it means to turn back Israel, turn back to his Torah! There is a compassion for life that is lost. We have literally desensitized our selves as human beings. May Hashem have mercy on us who show repentance and change towards him this Rosh Hashanah May all those who show compassion for all animal life’s names be written in his book!

Elizabeth Weisberg, Do you support the wrong doer? Does Hashem rebuke his children in public? What are the 6 even 7 things that G_d hates? Proverbs 6:16-19 Instead of defending a fellow Jew when they’re clearly wrong, you help them to save them from G_ds judgment anger! That’s a loving thing to do, not defending!! This way you break Hashem’s law in every way! Torah says Lev 5-1 you will be held accountable if you do not testify or speak up regarding something you have learned about, you will be responsible! Where your reasoning comes from is not from Hashem it’s your own. Ignorance is not bliss with G_d. You and everyone has the same opportunity to find out the truth without excuse and we must stand for righteousness for Hashem be a light unto the nations not an object of ridicule and embarrassment ready to be persecuted again!! Do you want that?? I think one Holocaust is enough don't you?

Elizabeth Weisberg, Do you support the wrong doer? Does Hashem rebuke his children in public? What are the 6 even 7 things that G_d hates? Proverbs 6:16-19 Instead of defending a fellow Jew when they’re clearly wrong, you help them to save them from G_ds judgment anger! That’s a loving thing to do, not defending!! This way you break Hashem’s law in every way! Torah says Lev 5-1 you will be held accountable if you do not testify or speak up regarding something you have learned about, you will be responsible! Where your reasoning comes from is not from Hashem it’s your own. Ignorance is not bliss with G_d. You and everyone has the same opportunity to find out the truth without excuse and we must stand for righteousness for Hashem be a light unto the nations not an object of ridicule and embarrassment ready to be persecuted again!! Do you want that?? I think one Holocaust is enough don't you?

Elizabeth Weisberg, Do you support the wrong doer? Does Hashem rebuke his children in public? What are the 6 even 7 things that G_d hates? Proverbs 6:16-19 Instead of defending a fellow Jew when they’re clearly wrong, you help them to save them from G_ds judgment anger! That’s a loving thing to do, not defending!! This way you break Hashem’s law in every way! Torah says Lev 5-1 you will be held accountable if you do not testify or speak up regarding something you have learned about, you will be responsible! Where your reasoning comes from is not from Hashem it’s your own. Ignorance is not bliss with G_d. You and everyone has the same opportunity to find out the truth without excuse and we must stand for righteousness for Hashem be a light unto the nations not an object of ridicule and embarrassment ready to be persecuted again!! Do you want that?? I think one Holocaust is enough don't you?

"In regard to cruelties committed in the name of a free society, some are guilty, while all are responsible."

"Remember that there is a meaning beyond absurdity. Be sure that every little deed counts, that every word has power. Never forget that you can still do your share to redeem the world in spite of all absurdities and frustrations and disappointments."

"Life without commitment is not worth living."

Be change Be repentance show that you give a damm!

Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel

This scandal cries out for religious leadership from the Orthodox world, and it is not too late for Orthodox Torah scholars to provide it. My fervent hope is that a resolution of the crisis will come speedily, with those in authority affirming Torah’s message of hope — which is that we must obey God, mitigate injustice and assure human dignity for all. The only solution for Jews is to become Vegitarian! I believe that is the message for us today, but its up to you to decide. Choose life so that you may live! Not death! Think about it.

Baruch Hashem

All meat processing plants have problems. We expect "ours" to be held to higher standards based on our Jewish ethics and Law.

Until the day comes that the violations reported in Forward and on film by animal rights organizations (my study might be shaky but there was nothing kosher about the inside of the slaughterhouse)are fully corrected, no person of good conscience can eat flesh without questioning. Forego the flesh. Vegetables, grains and fruit fof the tree and vine are kosher.

do the rabbis of hecher tzedek check their clothes if the label says made in U>S>A.Are thhei cars american?they seem to find an issue to their delight against god hearted giving Jews to knock as thi seriusly does no concern them. CHAK

It is very sad, but until Rubashkin comes out aggressively back at the unions, the unions will continue fighting, and being the aggressors. I wish we as frum yidden would stop being afraid of answering back. I wish we as frum yidden would stop being the first people to put one of our own down. Does the general public know how much Rubashkin has done for humanity? Or is the general public so stuck up on what the drive by media has to say, that they forget that somewhere else lies the truth? People claimed that there was a meth lab on premises. Was it ever substantiated? Or were our elected officials just thrilled to pounce on that allegation and publicize it? Why did the OU get involved in the politics? They are a HECHSHER company,, not a "we need to be on top of YOSHER" company? This Hechsher Tzedek should be the laughingstock of all frum hechsherim, instead, OU gave them credence? For Heaven's sake. Back to Rubashkin, where are their advisors to tell them to come out and expose the rediculousness of PETA and the Unions? Will PETA be taking pics this year at Kaporos of ur little children, and putting them on the net without your permission? Why are such tyrants allowed to get away with their hogwash? They are exposing themselves for the craziness they portray, and we as frum yiddalach stay on the sidelines, like a ganz far'n shchita, and allow them to rip us apart? People like Eric Yoffie are not frum, have no idea what yiddishkiet is all about,, and they are the ones that the media hears,, and they claim to represent Judaism. Am I the only who sees soooooooo much wrong with these pictures???? Hashem Yishmor.

It seems to me the real issue underlying Eric Yoffie's article is a certain inferiority complex perhaps? A certain need to view orthodox Jews negatively and to voice his opinion by putting down orthodox Jews(the same people he relies upon to provide him with kosher meat!). What is gained by that? Nobody can understand what is happening in this legal matter of the Rubashkins unless they are personally involved in the case, and nobody can be judgemental about it. And although the business "ethics" will be dealt with in time, the main point is that the meat has not been found to be unkosher! That is the most important thing. And Eric YOffie is trying to turn the attention of people towards other so called "moral" or "business ethical" issues rather than concentrating on the halachic issues at hand. For what purpose? In life, and especially now in these days before Rosh Hashanah, all Jews have to think about how we can unite and support each other and grow in our service of Hakadosh Baruch Hu, rather than how we can stir up controversies or anger or make another Jew look bad. The non Jewish media does that more than enough. We Jews should certainly not do so. Now is a time for unity among the Jewish nation. This is what will bring Moshiach. As it says that all jews stand united (the parsha we read this week in Devorim) and all are inscribed for a good sweet year through that unity. Let us concentrate on that and concentrate on bringing the redemption of all the Jewish people from this long and difficult exile, rather than picking at things that are really not that important in the long run. A person is innocent until proven guilty so there is no point in debating the "crimes" of Agriprocessors. However, to try to make a fellow Jew look guilty is a crime! it is called chilul Hashem. So Eric Yoffie should make an accounting of his own attitude towards his fellow Jews, including Chabad, and may we all merit to be inscribed for a year of life, health and happiness. Shana Tova umetuka.

However, to try to make a fellow Jew look guilty is a crime! it is called chilul Hashem. Chabad Mother They are guilty, weather they are a fellow Jew or not. That is not what is in question here. They are Jewish yes and they have been guilty in the past few years of selling Kosher meat that did not pass inspection on 3 occations in 2007! with recalls of 2,700 pounds of franks because of Samonella contaminations. You call that Kosher? Do you call that honest clean moral G_dly practices? Thats wrong, dishonest and evil! I speak my voice and I stand for Hashem with integrety! Like Moshe said at mount sinai, who is for G_d come to me. Who is not can stay on the other side G_d will deal with you very soon! Kudos and peace

Years ago I resolved my internal conflict over keeping kosher while knowing how animals end up being raised and slaughtered in this age of factory farming. (The kill lines have to keep moving quickly and there is no time for careful compassion, if you can be at all compassionate during slaughter.) My solution was to become vegetarian. Actually I am vegan and do not consume any animal products. I found a world of support for my chosen lifestyle. I joined Jewish Vegetarians of North America (see www.jewishveg.com) There are many other vegetarian and even Jewish vegetarian resources out on the internet. I also subscribed to The Jewish Vegetarian magazine. People who are concerned should at least consider the vegetarian option.

Rabbi Yoffe, I see that most of the responses attack you, often intentionally misreading what you wrote. But the fact is that you are right. Most interesting to me is the sudden appearance of the British-American concept of innocence until guilt is proved in a discussion about Halachic standards. It is not the case that Chillul HaShem cannot be accomplished without being convicted of criminal violation of the civil law. Shanah Tovah!

One of the things that the ultra-Orthodox voices here appear to be missing is that the irresponsible way the Orthodox powers that be are handling the Agriprocessors scandals are harming liberal Jewish perception of kashrut. Clearly Rabbi Yoffie is concerned about this.

I would ask Elizabeth Weisberg, Yochanan, chaim klien, M Stone if they--as Heimeshe yidden, so very concerned with the lack of ritual fulfillment by their liberal brethren--have any concern with how this is affecting their perception of kashrut.

Starting with our lust for meat in the Sinai Desert, we've been running into trouble in terms of personal health and communal spirituality. While some meat is presently permissable in Judaism, fleishig and Yiddishkeit don't really mix very well.

The highest ideals of kashrut specificaly and Judaism generally --- health and safety, conservation of resources, compassion for animals, peace and justice, ahavat Yisrael, caring for the weak and needy, and so on --- have always been consistent with vegetarianism.

Please visit The Vegetarian Mitzvah at http://www.brook.com/jveg for more information. I also highly recommend JVNA at JewishVeg.com

To my vegetarian friends and posters, who do you think is picking that fruit, and what kind of pay do you think they are receiving?

perhaps you should invite the orthodox community--not the agriprocessor-- to respond to their treatment of workers and animals.

Since when does Orthodox Judaism need to respond to the critiques of the Reform movement and its openly deviationist approach to any aspect of Halachic Judiasm that it deems inappropriate for its masses whose views of Judaism are more in consonance with the Democratic Party platform than the Torah? One need only read many of the linked articles on this website to see that Rabbi Eric Yoffie has a long standing animus towards all aspects of Orthdoxy, ranging from the Charedi to the Modern Orthdox.

Steve Brizel said,

"<em>Since when does Orthodox Judaism need to respond to the critiques of the Reform movement and its openly deviationist approach to any aspect of Halachic Judiasm that it deems inappropriate for its masses whose views of Judaism are more in consonance with the Democratic Party platform than the Torah?<em>"

Steve, I have met many misguided Reform Jews who are Republicans. Not Bush supporters, of course, but Republicans never the less. People are not always on the same medregah, and the Reform movement is quite inclusive of them.

<em>One need only read many of the linked articles on this website to see that Rabbi Eric Yoffie has a long standing animus towards all aspects of Orthdoxy, ranging from the Charedi to the Modern Orthdox.</em>

The charedim? You are concerned that Rabbi Yoffie has issues with the charedim? How about you teach the Charedim to address Rabbi Yoffie with the title "Rabbi" before complaining about Rabbi Yoffie's "animus," Steve?

And as for why the Orthodox should care, it is because Rabbi Yoffie is clearly concerned about the damage to his constituency's spiritual growth, which last time I checked, was something The Orthodox claimed to be concerned about as well.

I explain at length here: <a href="http://kvetcher.net/2008/09/26/ethical-monotheist-leader-rebukes-the-orthodox">http://kvetcher.net/2008/09/26/ethical-monotheist-leader-rebukes-the-orthodox</a>

Friedman wrote,

"perhaps you should invite the orthodox community--not the agriprocessor-- to respond to their treatment of workers and animals."

That is what the Jewish community has been doing for months now. The answer has been shockingly disappointing, to say the least. Especially the Orthodox Union, who doesn't engage (at least publicly) in the whiny conspiracies about "antisemitism" and evil unions.

As an Open Orthodox Jew, I have to hand it to "DK" for raising several important points here. Rubashkin's defenders here are looking for smokescreens, i.e. it's the Unions' fault, this is an anti-Semitic conspiracy, religious Jews should stand together etc. It reminds me of the arguments southern whites made 50 years ago to defend segregation. Both are unsustainable paradigms. Perhaps it is time for the adherents of "Lakewood Judaism" to simply grow up!

Yes, the judicial process may take long.

But since Rubashkin have thus far not been found guilty on anything, how can you criticize them, or criticize the Orthodox for not criticizing them?

Your hate for Rubashkin is utterly despicable.

DK-WADR, Eric Yoffie epitomizes what RJ stands for. He is a deviationist clergyman, not a musmach or a talmid chacham in any sense of the word. If you checked out the links, you would see that Eric Yoffie has a no holds barred animus towards all things Orthodox-ranging from Charedi to MO. As far as the future direction of Reform and Conservative Judaism, read Dr Jack Wertheimer's articles in Commentary.

It is also apparent that neither you nor Yoffie read an interview with R Genack about what prompted the OU's latest moves.

As far as Hechser Tzedek is concerned, there is no evidence that it is being applied anywhere else than the arena of Kashrus. One sees no proof of its adherents being asked to apply it to any other area of their purchasing power. Assuming that Hecsher Tzedek seeks to complement as opposed to displace Halachic norms, one also sees no proof whatsoever that it has inspired even a significant minority or even individuals to become observant of Kashrut. As of this date, it has failed its own self-proclaimed goal of helping gain more adherents to a life defined by the adherence to Kashrus.

Steve Brizel, you wrote about Rabbi Yoffie,

"He is a deviationist clergyman, not a musmach or a talmid chacham in any sense of the word."

When you say, "deviationist," you mean he isn't Orthodox. Correct?

So in other words...he and others (as in, the vast majority of American Jewry)have no right to criticize The Orthodox because they aren't Orthodox. Correct?

And the general population can't criticize you, because that would antisemitism.

And the Orthodox themselves can't publicly criticize the Orthodox because...that would be Lashon Horah, right?

So you guys got it all worked out pretty conveniently, don't you think?

I am surprised that Rabbi Yoffie and the forward have not yet read the statement of Agudath israel of America's Coucil of Torah Sages representing the Leading "Roshei Yeshiva" and "gedolim" to whom he refers. That statement available to the press since last week. there are striking points. The first, "hechsher tzedek" is a farce focusing on distorting kashrus and attacking the orthodox due to one media circus with no balance on the many operations that have long impeccable records. (i.e. Empire Kosher Poultry recently honored by the UFCW itself) In addition Hechsher tzedek will not focus on other consumer products.

The second point is a poignant call for ethics in the workplace based on Torah values.

That Rabbi Yoffie is the response of the Torah World.

Excuse me Mr. Bane, as an Open Orthodox Jew I'm also part of the "Torah World" and the response you offer is no response. One has to ask the very obvious question as to why so many of you charedim fear this innovation and are quick to rally around Rubashkin as if the preservation of Judaism was dependent on it? Sadly, I think this is all part of a culture that lacks any notion of accountability and really feels exempt from any standard a decent society might ask of its citizens.

Menachem said:

Yes, the judicial process may take long.

But since Rubashkin have thus far not been found guilty on anything, how can you criticize them, or criticize the Orthodox for not criticizing them?

Your hate for Rubashkin is utterly despicable.

Hate what is bad love what is good! Amos 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish justice in the gate; it may be that HaShem, the G-d of hosts, will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph. http://www.hareidi.org/bible/Amos5.htm#5

http://www.hareidi.org/bible/Amos5.htm#5 Amos 4:20-27 Shall not the day of HaShem be darkness, and not light? Even very dark, and no brightness in it?

I hate, I despise your feasts, and I will take no delight in your solemn assemblies. Yea, though ye offer me burnt-offerings and your meal-offerings, I will not accept them; neither will I regard the peace-offerings of your fat beasts. Take thou away from Me the noise of thy songs; and let Me not hear the melody of thy psalteries. But let justice well up as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Did ye bring unto Me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel? So shall ye take up Siccuth your king and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves. Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith He, whose name is HaShem G-d of hosts.

We don't need to sacrifice any animals anylonger! That time has passed! So has Rubashkins time, it has come to pass!

ITs clear that Hashem does not need any animal sacrifices today! So says this Script, Hashem's very own Word for us today!

Animal cruelty, torcher abuse what every you want to call it or even see it as that is what it going on today clearly seen all over the world.

This Rosh Hashanah/Yom Kippur should be the eye opener for the faithful remanent of Israel and the time to cry out to Hashem for mercy!!

Time to turn back Israel to Hashem! Read the Tanak every day! Too many ingnorant lost Jews go astray and convert to other religions today in Israel it is a huge shame Huge!! From Judaism to Christianity? WHy??? Because too many people putting up with what is clearly utterly discusting!! like this! So now we have Jews converting eating Kosher Pork in Israel who bow down and worship this person who said that they were G_d and that it was alright to do so? WHo is responsible for this? Everyone!! We need some Jewish unity here. We are kidding ourselves if we think we want Moshiac now and we do this kind of dirty business! We are either for Hashem with our whole hearts and strenghts or we are part of this disfunctional world as it is going down big time.

DO you all want that?

That is what is dispicable! not these truths that we are finding {Going on} in our Jewish world today!

We must do something about this stand up speak up for what is right!! and repent! Today is the time to do it. We have 10 days to think about it and Hashem will do the dealings. 10 days of repentance! Do the research and then in your heart then do something about it.

B'ezrat Hashem

Isn't Yoffie being a bit of a 'rapacious businessman' by dumping on his competition, the Orthodox?

Fortunately the Orthodox are multiplying like rabbits and will be overtaking the reform at about the time his great-grandchildren have their first communion.

Isn't Yoffie being a bit of a 'rapacious businessman' by dumping on his competition, the Orthodox?

Fortunately the Orthodox are multiplying like rabbits and will be overtaking the reform at about the time his great-grandchildren have their first communion.