Forward.com

"A language is a dialect with an army and a navy." -Max Weinreich

and polish jews never thought themselves as polish in the sense of a nation like the "arab nation"... your definition is too restricted. "arab" can also have a general cultural meaning. there were jews from arabic-speaking countries. they spoke, wrote and read arabic. their language was not very different of their neighbour's language. why is it so impossible to call them "arab jews". and "arab countries " is also a geographical term.

Prior to the late 19th century the term "Arab" was restricted to Muslim Arabs (who, by and large, were ruled by Muslim Turks). With growing awareness of Western culture, inspired initially by the shock of Napoleon's capture of Egypt, the notion of "Arab nationalism", with secular overtones, began to take shape. I suspect that Zionism may have contributed to its growth. Thereafter Christians living in Arab countries began to be called "Christian Arabs" or "Arab Christians". I don't believe that Jews were considered for inclusion.

We speak of Polish Jews, but we don't speak of Jewish Poles. We speak of American Jews, and we speak of Jewish Americans. I think that tells us a lot about how comfortable we feel as Americans.

We argue about whether we can use the term Arab Jews. No one has even suggested that we use the term Jewish Arab.

The main point is that throughout history Arabic-speaking Jews never regarded themselves as Arabs. Therefore, all those who are claiming that there is an "Arab Jewish" identity are haughtily defining for others a make-believe identity. The rejection of an "Arab Jewish" identity, indeed, has nothing to do with Zionism. On the contrary - this term originates from anti-Israel propaganda. Arabs and their supporters at times argued that "European Jews are foreigners to the Middle East whereas 'Arab Jews' are indigenous to the area..." Moreover, there were Jewish assimilationists who claimed that there is no such thing as a Jewish nationality, and they would define the Arabic-speaking Jews as "Arabs" - just as they would define other Jews as "French" or "Russian", etc. In reality, you wouldn't find a Jew today in Casablanca or in Tunisia who would tell you that he's an Arab - just as Saadia Gaon or Maimonides or Yehuda ha-Levi in the Middle Ages never regarded themselves as such. It's quite common in the western Diaspora to find Jews for whom Jewish identity is not their primary identity; however, in the Middle East, Jewish identity is one's only identity. So, one might be an Arabic-speaking Jew, but never an Arab Jew.

I am very disappointed in Philologos column today. The arguments boil down to "no they aren't", "yes they are". The issue itself could be characterized as sowmewhat racist. Rather than defensively insisting Philologos is right on this issue, let's agree to disagree and move on.

Exactly. Th term Arab Jew has been recently promoted by a few Israelis who happen to be fierce anti-Zionists. But the overwhelming majority of Israeli Jews, who came from Arab countries, identify themselves, first as Israelis and second as Egyptian, Lebanese, Iraqi, Syrian, Jews, never Arab Jews.

Poland has always been, Poland is and Poland will be.

Philologos is absolutely incorrect, again & yes, is not only being illogical but there is a tinge of racism in his confusing column which is rife with innacuracies and obfuscation.

"Arab" is defined independently of religious identity, and pre-dates the rise of Islam, with historically attested Arab Christian kingdoms and Arab Jews. The earliest documented use of the word "Arab" as defining a group of people dates from the 9th century BC. Islamized but non-Arabized peoples and therefore the majority of the world's Muslims, do not form part of the Arab World, but comprise what is the geographically larger and diverse Muslim World.

All of the following are absolutely valid depending on what the user is describing: European Jews or Jewish Europeans European Muslims or Muslim Europeans European Christians or Christians Europeans European Atheists or Atheists Europeans

similarly,

Arab Jews or Jewish Arabs Arab Muslims or Muslim Arabs Arab Christians or Christian Arabs Arab Atheists or Atheist Arabs

My mother is a "Palestinian Arab Jewess" She was born in Jerusalem in 1944. Her parents were from Iraq.

Galit Cohen, Hebrew University, Jeruslaem

Galit - One does NOT meet any Jew in Israel who sees himself as an Arab or as a Palestinian - no matter where his parents come from, and no matter that he had a passport of the British Mandate for Palestine. The only exception could be a person who has a very anti-Israel or very anti-Zionist agenda. In other words, his "identity" is actually a declaration of his political position - not a reflection of real ethnicity. I'm quite certain that your mother is Israeli (not just her citizenship, but also her cultural expressiveness), despite your declaration - and obviously she converses with you and her friends in Hebrew, not in Palestinian Arabic. Like all the Jews born in Mandatory Palestine, she's a Hebrew-speaking Israeli Jew.

Galit is using "Jewish" as if it's just a religious identity, parallel to "Muslim", "Christian" and "atheist". Obviously, this is very misleading and very UNTRUE. She claims that there are "atheist Arabs" ("Arab" is one's ethnicity; "atheist" is one's belief). However, there are also atheist Jews, and I'm rather confident that Galit has met many such people in Israel. In short, "Jewish" is also one's ethnicity! People don't ordinarily have two ethnicities. That's why you never hear about Arab Kurds! Both "Arab" and "Kurd" are distinct ethnic identities. A Jew born in the Land of Israel has an ethnic Jewish identity, obviously - not an ethnic Arabic identity, even if one's parents were born in Baghdad or Alexandria.

One very good indication of identity is the name that one gives to his children. A good example would be Barack (Obama) which indeed points to the ethnic background of his father (I believe the name means "blessing" in Swahili). Whenever you run into a "Hans", you aren't too surprised to discover that his background is German or perhaps Dutch. A mother who names her daughter "Galit" also has a very obvious identity - Israeli, not Palestinian or Arab.

Ach, nu. Philologos has hidden from a silly argument by offering a sillier one.

What's at issue here is a question of language philosophy. Do words correspond only to real things in the world, or do they mediate between subjective perceptions of individuals in their interactions with one another and the world? This argument is at least 2000 years old; from Aristotle to Chomsky. Philologos ('the lover of words') believes he has solved it, in favor of the former: there are no arab jews in the world, therefore the word is meaningless. But this is a fallacy; the philosophical/linguistic equivalent of an optical illusion. There are no unicorns in the world either, yet the word has meaning for people who use it.

What you mean, philologos, is that you don't like the term 'arab Jew'. A judgement of aesthetics. Admit this, and move on. Stop trying to borrow authority from some false appeal to 'linguistic impossibility.'

Or to put this directly: I see no reason why the term 'arab Jew' must inevitably assume rabid anti-zionism; nor do I know how people with Syrian or Iraqi passports identify themselves 'bi-seter libam' (in their heart of hearts). A topical misconception: Isn't that, in fact, exactly what the Iraqi insurgency is about? But lest we digress...

And on & on it goes, where you'll stop no one knows...This is pilpul of the worst sort.

Face it, you have a political agenda. You don't like Arabs or Islam and don't like the idea that Jews were ever a part of the Arab world. So you argue there never could be such a thing as an Arab Jew, when Arab Jews themselves tell you they consider themselves as such. It's the height of chutzpah and cultural condescension on yr part.

I'd be willing to bet that Louis Farrakhan too has a really hard time with the phrase Black-American or African-American. He too would rather see Blacks as people who happen to live in America but not really be part of it. But the plain fact is that African-Americans see themselves as American no matter what separatists like Farrakhan say.

Like the very definition of who is a Jew, the issue of how Jews of various countries or regions are to be described is, indeed, difficult. Perhaps most importantly, broad generalizations are impossible. And there is little consistency in use. While, for example, most Jews of pre-revolutionary Russia were described as Russian Jews -- Jews who lived in Russia, but had little ethnic, linguistic or cultural affinity or identity with Russians, there were, of course, exceptions. (One of my grandmothers was from a family that considered itself primarily Russian, spoke unaccented Russian as the family language and valued all things Russian, including great loyalty to the Tsar. Perhaps they should have been called Jewish Russians -- but I doubt that anyone would have used that term. Similarly, in the US, the UK, France and a number of countries around the world most Jews are little different from their Christian neighbors, speaking the same language, eating the same foods, dressing the same, living the same in all respects save some (perhaps)Jewish religious observance. Yet we continue to speak more often of American Jews, English Jews, etc. rather than Jewish Americans or Jewish Englishmen. Obviously, in places where identity is primarily a matter of religion or if there is an ethnic difference between Jews and those around them, it is different. And this has been the case in Arab countries. Nonetheless, there remains a problem: how does one describe Jews of Arab lands whose primary language is Arabic and who are, culturally, more Arab than anything else? What's the alternative to Arab Jews?

I have posted on this the first time around. My parents were Iraqi jews and though they, as did all jews, spoke arabic and were familiar with arab culture, if anyone had suggested to them that because of their living in Iraq they were arab jews, they would have considered anyone saying this to not be in possession of all his brain cells. And it was not just them...I have known and know numerous jews from Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Morocco etc. and not one of them considers themselves 'arab' jews but find the term as absurd as my parents and acquaintances do. As I said the first time around, this label is used by those jews who are anti-Zionist and/or fully indoctrinated members of the Far Left pushing an anti-Israeli agenda.

I have no doubt these are the same sort of people who also think multi-culturalism is the greatest thing since sliced bread and when it comes to the Israeli-Arab or the ongoing conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, these people will tell you there is no difference between either side. For them it's all moral equivalency.

It is very simple what they are called. If living in Iraq, Iraqi jews, if living in Egypt, egyptian jews etc. Or mizrahi. To think that just because they lived in any arab country they were identical to their moslem neighbors is ludicrous. The overriding social and cultural equalizer in any moslem country is Islam. To think that a non-moslem, as were the jews, were viewed by his moslem neighbors as just another Iraqi or Moroccan etc. shows that the person making such a statement understands nothing of what it was to live as a Jew in these countries and how that put you in a wholly seperate and unequal category.

Most people who have been born and grown up in the US have no idea what it is to live as a non-moslem in a moslem country. They assume, based on their American experience, that all ethnicities blend together in a shared American culture. Which is true for the most part. But nothing of that sort happens in a moslem country.

I guess if i were to say I know some Arab Jews, I would be using that term to indicate that I don't know which country the person originates from. The rabbi at my synagogue is from Egypt, so I might refer to him as an Egyptian Jew, but if I didn't know which Arab country he originated from, I could hardly say he was a Polish, German or whatever Jew. Or conversely if I were referring to a group of Jews from various Arab countries, I would just say Arab Jews. I guess if someone objected, I don't know how I'd respond, with no offense intended.

Arab Jews or Egyptian Jews?

Usually I am not keen to participate in debates. But here I make an exception. Following the recent debate on whether the Jews from Arab countries are considered Arab Jews or else, I couldn’t help but write my thoughts on the subject. I am writing in particular where Egyptian Jews are concerned, and this may also apply for Jews from other Arab speaking countries.

The Jews in the Middle East existed in the lands of this region long before the Arab conquest after Islam began. Being a descendant of a an old Jewish community in Egypt, it is claimed that this community was in existence in Egypt before the conquest of the Arabs by Amr Ibn Al’As عمرو بن العاص in 640 CE. Most of the Jews of Egypt identified themselves with Egypt and spoke the Arabic language which is the language of the land. This doesn’t make them Arabs. The notion of Egypt being an Arab country started only after the Gamal Abdel Nasser coup in 1952 when he aspired to join with Syria as one country and changed the name of Egypt to “The Arab Republic of Egypt”. The change had also a personal ambitious motif to claim the leadership of other Arabic speaking countries in the region.

Most of the intellectual Egyptians at that time expressed their opposition to the change knowing that the change meant the denial of the rich ancient and modern civilisation of Egypt.

The prominent writer and thinker Taha Hussein (1889-1973) vigorously opposed to the notion of associating Egypt to Arabism. I quote below Hussein’s writings in Arabic in this regard: إن الفرعونية متأصلة في نفوس المصريين ، وستبقى . بل يجب أن تبقى وتقوى . والمصري فرعوني قبل أن يكون عربيا . ولا يُطلب من مصر أن تتخلى عن فرعونيتها ، وإلا كان معنى ذلك : اهدمي يا مصر أبا الهول والأهرام ، انسي نفسك واتبعينا . لا تطلبوا من مصر أكثر مما تستطيع أن تعطي .. مصر لن تدخل في وحدة عربية ؛ سواء أكانت العاصمة القاهرة أم دمشق أم بغداد . وأؤكد قول أحد الطلبة القائل : لو حال الإسلام بيننا وبين فرعونيتنا لنبذناه " .

“Pharaonism is rooted within the Egyptians and it should stay and enforced. The Egyptian is a Pharaoh before being Arab. It is inconceivable to ask Egypt to renounce her Pharaohnic roots because that means: Demolish O’Egypt the Sphynx and the Pyramids, forget your past and follow us. Do not ask Egypt more that she can give.. Egypt will not enter into an Arab Unity; regardless whether the capital is Cairo, Damascus or Baghdad.”

In short, I conclude that there is no basis for the claim that Jews of the Middle East who lived in Arab lands were Arab Jews.

Abe Mourad

There is one more point to be made: until the advent of a secular pan-Arab nationalism in the early 20th century Arabic speaking Muslim subjects of the Ottoman Empire did not identify themselves as "Arabs." Pan-Arabism was an invention of Arabic speaking Christians who were influenced by 19th century European pan-nationalist ideologies (pan-Germanism, pan-Slavism, etc), as a means of secularizing Muslim society under the banner of an Arab secular national identity, and uniting the Arabic-speaking peoples from the Atlantic to the Gulf. Religion would be relegated to the private sphere, and a liberal secular nationalism would replace the Islamic theocratic order. For a short time, this appeared to be the direction the Arab world was headed, until the late 1920s when a Muslim reaction began in the form of the Muslim Brotherhood.

By the 1930s Fascist and Nazi ideologies began to permeate in the region, undermining the liberal elements of pan-Arabism. One consequence was the destruction of the Jewish communities of the Arab world through expulsion and other forms of compulsion by various Arab governments. The Syrian and Iraqi Ba'ath parties were heavily influenced by fascism, as were the various Islamist movements.

We are living today with the unresolved conflict between modernity and theocracy in the Arab world. The forces of reaction are i.e. represented by Hamas (the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine), Al Qaeda, Hezbullah, etc. Unfortunately, what is left of the secularist pan-Arabist movement are non-democratic regimes, and the Palestinian Fatah.